[WeePilot]

In the early '90s when I was more of an idiot than I am right now... I tried doing stoppies on my GXR750... It took practice but I managed to do them... Point I am trying to make is... I think a stoppie is more difficult to do accidently than you think... Just practice braking and getting the feel of what the front brake and wheel are doing during the stopping process...

I agree with this assessment. I used to do stoppies on my SV, DRZ, and KTM all the time. I was actually more comfortable doing stoppies than wheelies. To do a stoppie requires proper modulation of the front brake. Grabbing a handful of brake in a panic stop will most likely lead to locking the front wheel (non-abs obviously) and possibly low siding.

Do like others have suggested, and go to an empty parking lot and practice panic stopping.

 

[Scott E. Bonds]

I am a firm believer in practicing hard stops. I live in the sticks so I do it about once every ride on an empty straight stretch of road. Urban riders will have to find an empty lot somewhere.

Three seconds is a good following distance on a bike. Likely people will steal your space at this distance though, so in heavy traffic you may need to shorten it some.

Remember, as important as stopping fast and not doing a nose wheelie (which requires harder braking than you realize) is the cell phone user behind you that will stop on top of you.

 

[richw]

I practice slow and swerve

Aim for their rear bumper they won't be there when you get there

Panic stops are nice but missing is better target fix on the escape path

and while I am waxing poetic

If in doubt in a turn
Lean lean lean and lean some more .. you will probably make it
If not you will lowside and the bike will be in front of you for the primary impact

 

[Pirate650]

As a new rider, ride as much as you can, practice threshold braking as often as possible, and try to avoid this:

pic below

 

[garandman]

Hey, thanks for all the replies. Man, that was fast!

I'm not actually terrified. That was an exaggeration. "Concerned" is more like it. By now (9 months, 8000 mi) I am confident enough that my main concern now is over-confidence.

But, it *is* very nice to know that, yes, you can in fact accidentally do an endo at freeway speeds if you grab too much front brake. Thanks a ton for that.
Thx...

I would add a caveat. Yes you can do an endo if the front springs one your bike are too light for your weight and load. - which would be most North Americans.

I've done tracks days and attended the Lee Parks ARC on non-ABS and ABS V-Stroms. Also done a number of track days at NHMS and NJMP.

So I've braked these bikes absolutely as hard as I can from over 100mph to 50 and from over 80 mph to 30 - hundreds of times. And LP does a 30-0 panic stop drill.

Also ridden a BMW S1000RR superbike, SV650S and a Tiger 1050 ABS on these same tracks. The S1000RR has immense braking power and the Tiger ditto and is much taller so you can feel the brake torque.

An endo would be possible, I suppose, if you braked at relatively low speed and the front suspension collapsed down to the bump stops. But the DL has such modest braking power and long wheelbase that it should be of small concern compared to, say, car drivers......

 

[Bugzy]

Riding at 85 mph takes a lot of concentration. I did that a fair bit on my US tour last July. You really need to pay attention. Don't attempt it when your tired, or angry or distracted.

Mind your lane position and spacing between vehicles, and always have an escape route. Things can happen fast at those speeds.

Keep yourself behind a vehicle you can see through or around. If you get behind a car with blacked out windows get around them/change lanes, or back off so someone with clear windows gets in front of you. Use them as a buffer. You need at least two car sight distance always. Never ride behind a truck, or van that you cannot see past.

Don't ride in anyone's blind spot, or if you do (sometimes it is unavoidable in heavy traffic), leave enough room so they can cut in front of you without hitting you.

If you are in someone's blind spot and you need to pass, get past them fast. They may see the gap and think its ok to change lanes, so be ready.

I usually change to lane position 1 to pass cars like that. In case they start to go for it while I am passing. Gives me a bit of extra space.

The front brake is 70% of your stopping power, so use it. If you lock the front, you can release and reapply quickly. The same is NOT true of the back brake. If you lock the rear end, you need to hold it or the bike will toss you like a wet rag when you let it go (high side).

I had that same overconfidence fear when I started riding again. It was around the first year for me. I thought I was doing pretty good, but reading things in forums confused me sometimes. Like trying to read about counter steering, and then thinking about it when riding. It was around year 3 for me when my fears reduced. Still have to pay attention and practice all the safety maneuvers.

Slow down BEFORE the corner, and accelerate around it. Gearing is important. Practice the Outside/Inside line.

 

[ozart]

I take exception to the one foot down stop part of the exercise and I'm a former MSF instructor. If you're more comfortable taking the right foot off the brake at the end of the stop, do it. The rear brake has almost no influence on the last few feet of the stop. Otherwise, practice like your life depended on it until you build the procedure into your muscle memory so you react without thinking. It might.

If you're saying it's ok to come to a complete stop with only the front brake (in the last few feet), I have to take exception to that.
You never want the front forks compressed at the moment of stop unless you're avoiding collision.

 

[greywolf]

If you're saying it's ok to come to a complete stop with only the front brake (in the last few feet), I have to take exception to that.
You never want the front forks compressed at the moment of stop unless you're avoiding collision.

The front forks will always be compressed at the moment of a stop if you use any brake at all. It isn't which brake you use but the rate of deceleration that determines the amount of compression. See this video of a rear brake only stop. rear brake test clipped | Flickr - Photo Sharing!
It takes about seven second mark before the bike appears. After the stop, the front forks visibly extend from their compressed state even when the rear brake was the only one used.

Also, there is absolutely no problem with using the front brake all the way to the stopping point in a straight line stop.

 

[PeteW]

My experience. I've 'stoppied' a DL 650 three times, two without ABS, one with and on all occasions probably saved myself significant injury.

You are VERY unlikely to endo JUST from the stoppie - feels like it, but probably way less than vertical. IMO the risk from not hammering the front brake that hard was a LOT higher than the stoppie.

The big problem is - you do NOT want to hit whatever it was that made you smack the lever that hard with the brakes still on - get OFF the brakes again before impact. If it's lower than axle height and not solid (i.e. dog, cat) grit your teeth and go over it. Higher than half axle height swerve once you've got as slow as the brakes will get you may be a better option.

Here's what happens hitting an animal with brakes on.
Kangaroo Hunting! - ADVrider

I've hit a simillar sized roo (at much lower speeds) after heavy braking but releasing the brakes before impact - no damage to me or the bike - the roo, not so good.

If the whole stoppie thing worries you, fit Intiminators in the front suspension and it'll vastly reduce the chance of it happening at all. (Big reduction in front end dive).

Pete

 

[ozart]

The front forks will always be compressed at the moment of a stop if you use any brake at all. It isn't which brake you use but the rate of deceleration that determines the amount of compression. See this video of a rear brake only stop. rear brake test clipped | Flickr - Photo Sharing!
It takes about seven second mark before the bike appears. After the stop, the front forks visibly extend from their compressed state even when the rear brake was the only one used.

Also, there is absolutely no problem with using the front brake all the way to the stopping point in a straight line stop.

Now do the same thing with only the front brake.
In a perfect world stop, the bike and rider are perfectly vertical and anticipating the front fork(s) rebound. If any one of these 3 things aren't so, you're in trouble with front brake to full stop - not only due to increased front fork compression, but also front tire resistance.

I encourage everyone reading this to try it ...

 

[V-Tom]

The front forks will always be compressed at the moment of a stop if you use any brake at all. It isn't which brake you use but the rate of deceleration that determines the amount of compression.
...

Nit picking a bit: This would be completely true if the front forks were vertical, but they aren't, and the result is that there is a bit of compression of the front forks that comes from the forward vector.

..Tom

 

[greywolf]

Did you get the right quote there Tom?

 

[bruceatk]

I've been riding for 45 years and have never accidentally done a stoppie. If it does happen, the solution is the same as locking your front tire. Let up on the brake.

You are more likely to lock your front tire though. Fortunately it gives you a warning. The handlebars will want to turn when the tire locks up. If that happens let up on the brake.

The key I think is to be progressive in your maneuvers. Don't stomp on the rear brake or grab all you can of the front brake. Apply them in a progressive manner and be prepared to back off if you have gone too far

 

[greywolf]

I missed the "accidental" part of the question in my original answer. It's hard to do one on purpose. I have no worries about doing one accidentally.

 

[kiwi_outdoors]

my brain ain't trained yet

train your brain to not "grab a handful" in panic mode

whats the best way to train?

make the mistake once! (at a lower speed, not in traffic)

else practice hard braking on empty roads coming up to some marker (target)

Less than 12 hours after making my original post I was riding home, I looked back in front of me - saw a stopped vehicle too close - and did a "panic grab" on the brake, and low-sided on my left, I had ATGATT, the bike does not. Poor plastics, poor top box. good hard progressive braking would have been just fine. ABS would have been ideal.

 

[HotPockets]

Less than 12 hours after making my original post I was riding home, I looked back in front of me - saw a stopped vehicle too close - and did a "panic grab" on the brake, and low-sided on my left, I had ATGATT, the bike does not. Poor plastics, poor top box. good hard progressive braking would have been just fine. ABS would have been ideal.

O damn. Sorry to hear. Good to know you are ok. Its strange how life works like that from time to time!

Sent from Motorcycle.com Free App

 

[Dino M]

Progressive braking when panicked is a very hard thing to do. Hitting your rear brake first and then the front will give you a better chance of staying in control of the bike. This can be practices every time you stop which will build muscle memory in an emergency. From experience with the Vstrom, it can get out of shape very quickly if you grab to much front brake followed by applying rear break. The rear will loose most of it's traction and will swing to one side or the other due to it's long wheel base and weight distribution. When you release the front in this situation, the rear will gain traction and throw back end to the other side. If you still have not scrubbed enough speed when this happens, all hell will break loose and you can end up in a tank slapper, high side or lo side wreck. I've been riding for 35 years and many different bikes and this bike reacted like no other in this situation. It is to the point I'd almost call it dangerous. That wee was totaled and it took me a year to find a replace it with ABS because I refused to buy another one without it.

 

[garandman]

A much more likely event is to "tuck" the front wheel, by grabbing too much brake while the handlebars are turned a lot. The bars get slammed over, the wheel stops, and depending on which way you were leaning, get spit off the bike.

I did this at 10-15mph in some sand that had washed onto the road. I slammed down so fast I dislocated my ribs because my arm was still at my side. Sucked.

 

[bruceatk]

One thing I learned many years ago. I fell in the rain on the fast lane of I-95 in New York City. The car in front of me and I were trying to merge into the lane to our right so I wouldn't head off south to the city. I fell because I tried to force my bike to stop behind the car that had stopped in front of me. After 2 handlebar twisting front wheel lock ups, I ended up locking the front tire and having the bike fall out away from me. After sliding/tumbling to a stop, not being hit by anyone, picking up my bike, and sitting all alone on the median as cars flashed by me and my broken bike I came to this conclusion. I didn't need to stop. I could have just passed the car on the left and gone off in the wrong direction. The worst thing that would have happened is that I would get stuck in traffic. Instead I stubbornly tried to go the way I wanted to and I fell.

I have had many incidents since then where I have just taken the escape route rather then try to force something to happen. That was 40 years ago and it's never happened to me again (fingers crossed, hopefully I haven't jinxed myself).

 

[d_epler]

Stoppies?
OH YEAH!!

Especially if you put SV Racing products GSRX caliper adapters on your bike!!

I was following a jeep Northbound on I-275 in Tampa one day in the fast lane moving about 75mph indicated. All of a sudden I heard the unmistakable sound of crunching metal from in front of me, then I saw the interior of the jeep fill with smoke as the airbags deployed.

:yikes:

I squeezed as much front brake as I thought the bike could handle while applying rear brake at the same time....next thing I knew I could feel the rear end lift a foot or two off the ground!!!

:jawdrop:

To this day I'm amazed that I even remembered to glance in my right mirror to ensure the mustang behind me was stopping fast enough - just in time to see him fly by on the right!!

When I got home I saw "cheese-grater" markes on the rear tire where it had locked on the grooved pavement just before "lift-off"

SO YES - you CAN do a stoppie especially with GSXR-750 front calipers!!

Demented Dave in Boring Bagram Afghanistan
Bikeless and bummed for 60 more days!!