I don't remember who told me this, but it's always better to learn from someone else's mistakes than from your own. That's something you learn with age, but the kids in the Chex commercial had it figured out when the said "let Mikee try it".

There's much to be learned from the MSF courses. And still from well written books and videos. And a nice reminder from your account here. Maintain "margin" in all aspects (i.e. room for error and surprises), especially following distance.

 

I don't remember who told me this, but it's always better to learn from someone else's mistakes than from your own. That's something you learn with age, but the kids in the Chex commercial had it figured out when the said "let Mikee try it".

Someone once quipped, and I think it may have been Will Rogers, something like this: "Good judgment comes from experience, and that comes from a lot of bad judgement." Looking back, I'd have to say that's the case with me, and, I suspect, a lot of us. I was a late comer to motorcycling, having gotten out of the Army after 5 years of service, been married for 4 years and having a toddler in the family, so I was pretty careful not to be too much of a squid. I guess I got all the "thrills" I could handle as a helicopter pilot during two combat tours in Vietnam. Sort of tones a person down a bit. So, I pass no judgement on others, other than to note what, on the surface, is apparent in any incident/accident/crash.

 

4) The Kawasaki rider either didn't leave enough cushion or was traveling too fast or didn't know how to quick stop and lost traction (probably grabbing the front brake instead of squeezing) and the bike and rider slid, deflecting off the back of the stopped car.

Usually the problem is not enought front brake and locked rear brake.

 

When I was 17 my grandparents bought me an Eastern European bike 125cc used beat up and all but it was mine. I got it for good grades, helping around the farm, whole nine yards. Few weeks into riding back roads my buddy tried to teach me how to push start it. I ran besides the bike holding the bars - it started pulling forward I didn't grabbed the clutch, but instead was falling behind with my hand on the throttle. WHAM! we both hit the chain link fence and a solid metal post. Forts bent, light gone, rim bent, knees bleeding, some skin gone all the good stuff. That was when I learned to respect anything mechanical especially motorcycles. So, now when I see "cool" dudes riding their rockets in flipflops and shorts I cringe and shake my head.

 

I'm not sure if the fast bike is the issue, or the symptom...
I was immortal in my teens and twenties, as well... Skydiving (and not always in the best of condition to); the occasional base jump; home-made zip-lining (before it was a 'thing'); cliff-diving in quarries... etc.

I know (at my now older, wiser, and more practical, age) that much of that was ill-considered, however, I'm not entirely convinced part of maturing (for many of us, anyway) isn't taking a fall or two on your own, and experiencing the consequences (both physical and financial). Hopefully, we do learn, and grow... and look back and sigh in relief that we survived our immortal years...

Although, I don't think we ever really shed *all* the curiosity, and adrenaline chasing...

 

I graduated college with my bachelors 25 years ago. Throughout my professional carrier as well as my personal life, I have learned that I am a "hands on" learner. I can read 100 books, or watch 100 presentations, but until I put my hands to the task and do it myself, it doesn't stick. That being said, I was told last year, that until I get my MBA, I am at a career standstill. So two weeks ago I started college again, this time through an on-line distance learning program, and I find I am really struggling. This type of program is 100% "hands off" learning; limited text books but lots of desk time at the computer with webinars, videos, etc. It's really tough for me but I have no choice but to adapt.

Anyway, that being said, some people (like me) have a hard time learning from a hands off approach. So things like riders safety courses, seeing other peoples mistakes, etc. may be all for naught. For some, until one gains from experience, or the school of hard knocks (life) it may not be a lesson learned until you experience it for yourself. Like the old saying goes, Live & Learn......

 

I graduated college with my bachelors 25 years ago. Throughout my professional carrier as well as my personal life, I have learned that I am a "hands on" learner. I can read 100 books, or watch 100 presentations, but until I put my hands to the task and do it myself, it doesn't stick. That being said, I was told last year, that until I get my MBA, I am at a career standstill. So two weeks ago I started college again, this time through an on-line distance learning program, and I find I am really struggling. This type of program is 100% "hands off" learning; limited text books but lots of desk time at the computer with webinars, videos, etc. It's really tough for me but I have no choice but to adapt.

Anyway, that being said, some people (like me) have a hard time learning from a hands off approach. So things like riders safety courses, seeing other peoples mistakes, etc. may be all for naught. For some, until one gains from experience, or the school of hard knocks (life) it may not be a lesson learned until you experience it for yourself. Like the old saying goes, Live & Learn......

Everyone is a hands-on learner. The difference between you and a lot of other people is that you are aware you are a hands-on learner and you understand what it means to learn something. In the lingo, you are called a "constructivist." You construct meaning by doing. This is the only way any meaningful understanding occurs. All other "learning" is at a superficial level. A lot of people think they can minimally engage with an idea and learn it. They are perpetually frustrated.

Good luck with the on-line MBA. Find a way to make it hands-on for yourself. Relish any opportunities for group projects. As an educator, I can tell you the on-line course is deadly for many students who do not have the understanding you do. Use it to your advantage.

 

I think we all have been 1/2 second or so away from being that rider. I have been fortunate that my close calls have been on the non-impact side. My worst one and the one that scared the heck out of me was when I was in the Navy and stationed near Williamsburg, VA. I was riding around near a local college there and severely distracted by the local scenery. When I looked back in front of me I was zooming up on a stopped car. I managed to stop about an inch from impact. I also had the wonderful opportunity to fall in the fast lane of I-95 in New York City in the rain. In that one, my attention was caught up in trying to merge with the surrounding traffic and self imposed pressure that I must change lanes and didn't notice the car in front of me stopping. Both of those happened when I was 19 and I had been riding for 5 years or so and I had driven across the US once.

I wouldn't penalize this guy for his mistake. He'll learn from it and it sounds like he was lucky. I look at it as I have been luckier. It just shades of gray.

 

One more story, and I'll get off my soap box...... I am 47 and have been riding motorcycles since I was 5. I was lucky enough to have some skills and held my AMA professional racing license in dirt track and road racing until 9 years ago. That said, I have crashed probably over a hundred times at the track, but the most serious accident was on the street in 2009 when a lady in a Volvo, talking on her phone, pulled out in front of me while I was doing 65 mph on my CBR. I was life flighted out unconscious with a shattered femur, broken ribs, and crushed metacarpals in my left hand. It was a 6 month recovery, but once I could could get back in the saddle and ride for more than 3 hours, I celebrated by purchasing my '08 Wee and taking a trip to AK the summer of 2010. Almost got divorced over it, but I still had over a month of leave before returning to work so figured what they didn't know wouldn't hurt them (or me). Afterwards, I'm still married, and that same DL is still parked in my shop and probably always will be......

 

You live and you learn......hopefully.

 

Yep. The alternative is that you don't live and hence....no learning. At least not for you.

I totaled two cars and helped my friends wreck two more before I was 20. Not bragging, but I learned that I really wasn't the professional stunt driver that I thought I was. I lived and learned.

 

Learning from others' mistakes

Aristotle (384 - 322 B.C.) had a lot to say, about a range of subjects, but maybe this one is appropriate to the thread topic: "Experience keeps a dear school, but fools will learn in no other."

dkayak1, perhaps someone rephrased this advice from a wise foreign minister of the 19th century: "Fools you are, to say you learn by your experience. I prefer to profit by others’ mistakes and avoid the price of my own." - Otto von Bismarck

As to The Squid Was Me idea, I guess I lucked out, making the majority of my idiot-moves while still riding in the dirt (no helmet, of course, because when you're twelve and thirteen and out of adults' sight-range you can be REALLY dumb at times: "If I lay my head on the tank, I bet I can get under that barbed wire fence." Almost.). By the time I was riding on pavement I'd seen enough road rash on others to appropriate my dad's leather flight jacket, and wear a helmet, gloves and good boots.

 

couple tips for ya. 1. ride where the cagers are not. iow's, ride the hills & twisties. cagers hate that kind of stuff.
2. since most mc accidents (90%) happen at slow speed, avoid slow speeds, city traffic, traffic jams, etc..

 

couple tips for ya. 1. ride where the cagers are not. iow's, ride the hills & twisties

Sez the guy from central Ohio where the last glaciation left everything flat as a pancake.:mrgreen:

 

I dunno, he's right on the edge of the Parkersburg/Lancaster/Steubenville triangle

http://goo.gl/maps/iEjhW

 

Is there anything more effective than learning lessons the hard way?

Experience can be the worst teacher...sometimes the cost is too high.

some people (like me) have a hard time learning from a hands off approach. So things like riders safety courses, seeing other peoples mistakes, etc. may be all for naught.

A good training course give plenty of supervised practice at a pace where the riders have time to learn. And, any course can not do the whole job, but its job is to deliver the correct movements to the rider so they can practice, practice, practice until the correct movements become a habit.

An understanding of how the brain learns is a help. When we've "learned" something new neural connections have formed in our brain. This is habit, or automatic, or muscle memory, or just-know-how-to-do-it. These reactions are fast, take little effort, and allow the other sections of the brain to think of something else. Learning a new movement takes several hundred correct repetitions. Replacing a habit takes several thousand correct repetitions. Before we've created the habit to do something, we have to think about the movements. This is slow, tiring, our brains can only think of one thing at a time, and it is easy to see how something can go wrong.

P̶r̶a̶c̶t̶i̶c̶e̶ ̶m̶a̶k̶e̶s ̶p̶e̶r̶f̶e̶c̶t̶
Perfect practice (and practice and practice) makes perfect.

 

+Our youngest son displayed the equal lack of sense and ability when he got his license at 18...slow starter. Thankfully he was in an old VW bug he bought from his sister. He didn't get hurt but went through several hoods and front fenders learning to drive well.
Now he's 40 and racing bicycles and crashing.
So like the first guy said, "and Judge not.....

 

Anybody who wants to ride a bike on the street should be required to spend 2 ~ 3 years riding just dirt. They can pick the bike they want, and get educated on good gear. Let them dissipate the testosterone poisoning in the dirt, fall down a bunch of times, etc. Falling down in the dirt at speed is in general less hazardous than falling down on pavement at any speed.

Give them a couple of years of dirt experience, let them find out what it's like to fall down, how to handle emergencies, etc, THEN give them a street bike. If they are too stupid to have learned from the dirt experience so be it, but that will fix most of the problems.

Too many street squids have never gone down, and have no emotional connection to the consequences, while in the dirt world it is expected. And falling down, especially at speed, and especially in rocky terrain (ask me how I know this) drives the lesson home real quick to anybody with two working brain cells to rub together.

This won't eliminate all the squids from behaving squidishly once they get on the street, but I'd bet it would cut down on the number by a big margin.

 

Ohio is far from flat I can assure you of that. There are no mountains here....but Eastern,South Eastern, North Eastern and Southern Ohio is quite twisty and full of foothills. Great riding in this state believe it or not.

I graduated from Ohio U so I'm pretty familiar with that part of the state. But the Columbus area is far more like my ancestral home near Bowling Green. Flat, flat, flat, except for very shallow river valleys.

But, yes, there is some nice riding there. I didn't have a motorcycle until I had moved out of the state after the Army, but when we lived in Virginia my wife and I traveled over to the Ohio Amish country on our Goldwing. I had a strange sensation riding out there; everything seemed just like my home in Wood County -- cornfields, red barns and white farmhouses, deep drainage ditches on both sides of the 2-lane country roads -- but something unusual kept nagging me about the scene. After a while I figured it out; no telephone or electric poles marching alongside the road. Who needs 'em?

Most Americans don't know that there are more Amish in OH than PA.

 

"Southern Ohio is quite twisty and full of foothills"

Undulating land perhaps but what are they foothills to, the great flat? Mt. Everest of Indiana? :green_lol:

 

Whatever they actually are or may be called, I would still rather live in Ohio than California.

 

I look back at my riding as a kid through the Hollywood Hills . . . protective gear back then was a windbreaker, 3/4 helmet and gloves yet, like so many I survived. Although in my case the vast majority of my really, really stupid bad decisions were made while racing cars not bikes.

Young people are certainly capable of learning things intellectually but translating that into behavior usually seems to require experience. I think most parents just hold their breath and hope the judgement lapses are relatively minor.

After coming back to bikes in my 50s I learned the same thing as the OP one morning when leaving a light the car ahead of me suddenly came to a halt - I discovered doing a stoppie with the wheel turned is not a good thing. knew it intellectually but I tried to miss the car while jamming the front brake.

Good news - didn't hit anyone or break anything. Bad news - had a bruise to remember with for a couple weeks.

 

Bump the minimum age to join the military up to 25 and require a college degree. :mrgreen:

 

IMHO, the earlier you start, the better you off you will be later in life. This may seem obvious, but I think the problem is that you put an adult sized person on an adult sized bike, that will get them in trouble quicker than they realize. Now they have to learn to ride as well as learn to handle the traffic and other obsticals. Someone who started as a kid at 6 or 7 crashed several times at slow speeds in the grass.

Also, I think there is a big advantage to learning to ride off road. Trails and such teach you things about a bike that you just can not learn on the street.

And most important, crash when you are young...because it hurts for way too long when you are older.

 

I totally agree and that was the case with me as I rode thousands of miles on two wheels before I was even old enough to get a license and I know for a fact that that experience paid off however it can't always work that way. Some grow up in the city and some don't have an interest in motorcycles until later in life, etc. My father-in-law started riding at 68. Boy that was scary.

 

I've been to SE & E Ohio a number of times...... those roads are just so plain straight, flat and boring that I wonder why I keep going back all the time. :rofl:

As for rider courses, in Ontario, it is mandatory for a new rider to go through our version of MSF........ prolly should be mandatory everywhere for basic training.

 

can not blam him

in my youth it took two bikes a Honda CB and Yam Seca to "learn". I made it through my youth with bad choices and a lot of luck.
Just to prove that I was young and dumb I even got interested in the other 1/2 of the population! I spent all my money on wine and women the rest I just wasted.