If you believe the pictures posted on SV Racings site, the exact same pictures taken by and used for the Adventuretech site, are there because they just happened to be on the internet somewhere, then I don't think you can be influenced by what I am writing. They were malicious postings of others property.

I have stayed out of the dispute for the most part till now. Had enough of that with Sharealike. But when you directly copy anothers product and then steal their pictures to sell the product you are NOT someone I will do business with. Blair had a very good reputation for service at one time. But I will not trust someone that stoops this low.

You are correct in stating there are no patents available or in force for any of these products. So from a legal standpoint little can be done for that, nor should there be. If Rick wanted protection he should have attempted a patent on certain products. You state that Adventure Tech may be going to sell sprockets and at a better price than SV Racing. If Blair can undercut Ricks prices, the same can be done in return.

If Blair had come out just once and explained his position this might have taken care of itself. Yes, there is a fued between them. Rick shouldn't complain if someone copies a part that has no patent. Blair should NOT steal pictures from a competitors website to put on his website. That crossed the line, perhaps legally, and that is why there is a boycott that I can sanction.

 

Blair has a nasty and well-documented history of blatantly stealing people's designs and ideas that dates from many years back. Just saying.

 

Now Adventuretech as been selling Peg Lowering and mirror extenders for many years, and recently SVRacing has also jumped on the wagon to sell these. Apparently at a lower price point. Suddenly a Boycott is suggested. Does Adventuretech have a Patent on either of these products? No.

That's not what the issue is and not why Rick is calling for a boycott.

While these two companies are fighting over these low sales volume items, Adventuretech is suggesting a Boycott of SVRacing, in a strong drive to wipe him out of business. That is how I read the Boycott idea. He is even going as far as to now find ways to help people locate lower cost items for SVRacing's main business, which is Chain's and Sprockets. This has nothing to do with Adventuretech, and yet he is pursuing this.

So Blair can sell a product cheaply but not Rick ? That makes no sense at all. Should I not buy the same product cheaper from my local dealership if they offered it ?

That re-used photo in advertising could easily be a mistake made by SVRacing. Once pictures are on the internet they often get bounced around.

As a business he LEGALLY cannot use just a random picture from the web to promote his products. He HAS to pay for the rights to use that picture to sell products, no matter what it is. Copyright laws specifically say so.

He used Ricks actual picture to sell something, he has to pay Rick for the right to use that photo no matter where he got it from. As a business you can't just use random pictures from the internet to sell products without paying for it first. Since he did so, he also has to pay certain damages to Rick for using said photo illegally.

 

I am mostly dismayed at the talk of boycotting being a paid member of the forum until VS bans SV Racing

I have always thought of SV Racing as an obnoxious spammer, but I understand the marketing model

to me the boycott spamming is just as obnoxious

 

I was thinking much the same thing when Rick was promoting his products in my thread on a voltage metre. I do realize that he is interested in selling his wares and must advertise to do so.

 

The one thing that rankles with me is that Rick keeps asking for VS to ban SV because he is doing harm to the forum and it's commmunity. By asking us to boycott SV and also stop paying money to VS he is himself doing harm to the forum and probably in more danger of getting himself banned than SV.

If I was the owner and somebody started telling members to do this I would take a very dim view of him.

Coops.

 

I just spent quite a bit of time looking for, and not finding, any post where Rick/Adventuretech suggested that members should stop paying money ( premium memberships ) to Vertical Scope. Maybe I missed it somewhere. He has suggested and wants a boycott of SV Racing parts. Which is what one moderator has already approved of. If I were Vertical Scope I would not approve of non payment either. But it looks like a couple others are responsible for that. Please show me where this was written and I will gladly delete this post (if I can) and apologize.

Yes I wish this wasn't on the forum. But there is one thing to consider. SV Racing sells parts they don't make. Just like Revzilla and others. Adventuretech sells many parts that were designed and developed by them. Plenty of places to buy parts, few places to buy unique parts developed for a small market. While I am sure Rick will learn more about Patents soon, meanwhile who do you want to prosper? Again, stealing the pictures was what brought me into this.

 

The situation is contractual. It will take proof of breaking the law or site rules to break a contract. Hearsay and moral outrage are not sufficient to take action. Even if copying another person's product can be proven, it is not a violation unless that product is copyrighted or patented. Anyone who has proof of law or rule violation can notify Verticalscope or PM a moderator who will pass on the information. If Verticalscope bans a vendor who has paid for the right to post here, VS can be sued and lose unless a violation of the law or site rules can be proven. Rules cannot be changed ex post facto so all you constitutional scholars need to find a bannable offense that occurred regarding the laws and rules in effect at the time.

The legal and time honored method of showing displeasure with a vendor is to boycott a vendor's products. Members can do that as long as they do not slander or libel anyone in that process. Do not fabricate or guess when describing what you don't like. Stick to facts.

The first mention of the boycott tool, if I recall...

 

That re-used photo in advertising could easily be a mistake made by SVRacing. Once pictures are on the internet they often get bounced around.

Doesn't anyone else see this?

My opinion is that Adventuretech is way out of line here, and that proposed Boycott thread should be deleted immediately. How any member can agree with his proposal is like the German's following Hitler.

Let the market decide who has the best product, and we as consumers can all benefit.

I agree with you BugMagnet. Two kids fighting in the sandbox. Rick stated that going to court was a possibility - good. Let the judge decide.

Brian

 

You are correct. I cannot find where he has asked outright but he did condone the idea when first it was suggested.

His advantage of course is that he is the moderator in that section and can edit posts to his liking, or not, as he did to the op of this thread.

In actual fact, while typing this, I feel that the whole saga has run it's course out here in the open and it can only become divisive and a bit tedious from here. I feel for Rick and wish him well in his endeavours but like all things it soon becomes yesterday's news and less interesting the longer it drags on.

Coops.

 

[/QUOTE]As a business he LEGALLY cannot use just a random picture from the web to promote his products. He HAS to pay for the rights to use that picture to sell products, no matter what it is. Copyright laws specifically say so.

He used Ricks actual picture to sell something, he has to pay Rick for the right to use that photo no matter where he got it from. As a business you can't just use random pictures from the internet to sell products without paying for it first. Since he did so, he also has to pay certain damages to Rick for using said photo illegally.[/QUOTE]

I don't know this guy Blair, but I have had several pleasant transactions with Adventuretech. As a photographer and owner of intellectual property, saying that an individual "has" to obtain rights to imagery is laughable. The internet is full of stolen images being used for gain. The laws are there, but seldom enforced. The cost of prosecuting an individual for intellectual property theft are very very often far greater than any benefit. Now, if we are talking a documented case of intellectual property theft by a multinational corporation, that's another story altogether.

One reason an interloper can charge so little for a knockoff product is because he didn't have any of the head scratching and developmental, Mk1 to MkX, work the inventor did. Besides, Rick is a nice guy, but this isn't a charity. He works his ass off to develop niche products that are very nice and should be able to make a profit from his work.

 

Doesn't anyone else see this?

Nope, you're wrong.

I'm glad Rick brought his case to the customers to air his side, one which I wholly agree with. You can ignore it, buy SV's crap and pretend that nothing ever happened.

More power to ya. Boycott shall continue as far as my wallet goes.

 

** SVRacing has been making Fork Braces for many years. They had a model called Superbrace and I remember considering one of these at one point, but the price point was a little high for me. Along came Adventuretech with their version of a Fork Brake, and considerably less money, so I bought one. Honestly I think it was not very helpful on my bike, but many think differently. Did Adventuretech copy the Superbrace, No, he made his own, but the basic design is the same, the connection method the same, material the same. Did SVRacing have a Patent on it? No, fork braces have been out for many years on many different bikes.

** Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think that is true. I believe Superbrace is it's own company. Their location is in Huntington Beach, Ca., not Washington state, where SVRacing is located.

https://superbrace.com/

https://superbrace.com/pages/contact

 

you are correct! the superbrace was and still is a lot more $$ than Rick's design, which Blair stole and now probably has made in china though he claims it's made in the US. likewise for the other products/designs that blair stole from Rick.

 

If it puts a bug up anyone's ass, ignore the posts and ignore the threads.......simple eh? Go even further and ignore members, you do have options.

 

Aha, a voice of reason cuts through the bullshit...



uncaged

 

I for one am interested in the morals of people with whom I spend my money. Perhaps its because I was once a small business owner. Rick has spent a lot of time and energy building up a "cottage" business and to hear that jackals are attempting to rort his efforts gets right up my nose - and you should be offended as well.
To me Adventuretech's position has been well and clearly stated and no reply has been posted by the other party.

 

and no reply has been posted by the other party.

and I applaud the "other party" for not turning the forum into an online pissing contest

 

I only edited one comment in my forum on this subject. And that was because it contained an allegation of us copying the superbrace. Which is absolutely not true. However, after years of Blah claiming that we had copied the Superbrace he did copy it. It is an exact copy with his name on it. It's pretty obvious that anyone not claiming to understand the difference isn't trying.

Did Blair develop a new way of doing something? Nope. He simply copied them and put his name on them. He simply stole the innovation for his use taking the reward for the effort from the guy who did the work.

The picture of my own motorcycle and mirror extenders was not a great product photo. It only showed one mirror extender and showed the earlier black powdercoated bolts before we switched to zinc plated. Blair never used the black powdercoated bolts. It was obvious and the only purpose was to rub my nose in the fact that he is getting away with copying our parts.

The products we are talking about were developed at the request of the community. While the solutions look simple now, they did not exist before I spent the time and effort to make them so.

I am asking the community to protect the kind of environment that supports this kind of innovation. It was a culture that lead to a wide variety of innovative solutions by a large number of people. If this culture disappears the community is the one that will suffer. The innovators will simply stop or more on. It has already happened. Do I want "him" especially to stop copying our parts. You better believe it. The insults he threw at us in an attempt to preserve his near monopoly on fork braces are still here.

A boycott requires time and wide participation to work. Participation requires visibility.

If your the subject of a Boycott your going to try to limit it's duration and visibility to others. Your also going to try to undermine or cloud the the argument against you. Your also going to try to enlist others to do your work for you.

To end this all Blair has to do is stop selling copies of other peoples work and killing the environment that leads to the innovative solutions to owner's challenges.

Why has he not come up with his own solutions and designs? Simple. He lacks that ability and people are willing to buy his copies.

If people quit buying his copies and punish him for stealing other peoples work he will stop.



Boycott SV Racing

 

Rick,

I am curious if you know, Has Superbrace taken any action against Blair?

 

Yes. They joined the forum, started a thread dedicated to informing the members, and posted a gif of Blair's copy superimposed over their brace. It illustrated how how he simply copied the brace he had previously been buying from them and put his name on it.

At the time VS wasn't willing to delve deep into the problem and just wanted the controversy to go away.

I can only speculate that they did not take legal action because they did not realize they had recourse.

 

This kind of stuff is what tears forums apart.

If I were the Moderator ID delete both this and the Boycott post, let the two business owners settle this matter off line and in court where the matter belongs.

Everyone has an opinion, and an ass hole, some stink, some don't!

JSNS

 

The forum is doing just fine, no rules are being broken and no personal attacks are occurring. This thread was not created by a supporting vendor, and many times controversy has its merits. People's opinions and views should be embraced, and more times than not a conflict ends in a solution.

 

I find it very odd indeed that Blair has not said anything...

 

Is it the pointed out the unethical behavior or the unethical behavior that tears forums apart?

Would you rather silence the victim and let the behavior continue or eliminate the behavior?

 

I just came up with a way to move the gear shift forward without lowering the pegs. The move could between 3/4" to as much as anybody would want. It will not be feasible to patent the idea because of low production volume.

Should I put all the work into figuring out the details of the design full knowing that Blair will wait until I have done all the work and steal the design? Or should I just let this idea go because the community will not protect this kind of initiative? This is just one of an unlimited number of very real consequences for anyone coming up with a solution to a V-Strom problem if the community tolerates Blair's behavior.

 

What happens when your product starts being produced in china and sold on eBay by chinese retailers much like the chinese pazzo brake lever knock offs that go for $20 instead of $200? Are you going to ask the community to boycott eBay? Will you attempt to get eBay users to boycott the seller?

 

This is a worldwide problem affecting many products, manufacturers and distributors. It isn't going away anytime soon. Harbor Freight for example, they have made a massive business out of it. How many businesses have started out selling name brand items then resort to store brand at a lower price from the same manufacture. In our motorcycle community look at Cycle Gear and the Bilt stuff they sell. Most forum members will just ignore it and let things take their course. I feel for both vendors here as the market they have chosen to be involved in is so specialized with such a low volume but that's their own choice. Many specialized forums have banned vendor selling on their forums, I'd surely hate to see that happen here but can see this leading towards that decision if it escalates further.
The best thing to do by any vendor is to market high quality item at a reasonable mark up. Let the consumer make the choice where they will make their purchase based on value to them of that particular item.

 

Tears a forum apart? Come on.

This forum has over 40,000 members. I don't know what percentage of those are actually active, but even if it was only 10 percent, that's still four thousand guys using the forum. Look back over the three different threads that are currently going about this issue; how many different individuals are commenting on it?

This subject isn't going to tear this forum apart any more than the Trump for President thread, or the Second Amendment thread, or any of the other controversial posts will. Just like a lot of the controversial posts, the people who post on it end up being a minuscule portion of the overall membership. Every forum has a core group of people who like to wade into the controversial topics, but most of the members either don't care, or don't have an opinion. They just come here to find out why there's a weird vibration in their engine, or whether a 14t sprocket is better; the Adventuretech Vs SV Racing brouhaha isn't even on their radar. If it was, you'd see a lot more different names posting here.

This is a controversial topic, and it should be. There should be a place for it to be hashed out, because it does affect the members; after all, you have a right to know about the kind of people you give your money to. So far the topic has been pretty civil, though it's primarily an echo chamber since the other side of the issue isn't being presented.

If I come here to comment, it means I came here voluntarily. No one put a gun to my head and made me read something I didn't want to read. If the topic is distasteful to you, then just avoid it. The only time it becomes an issue is when it spills out of the relevant thread and infects another one (I don't want to hear about Adventuretech Vs SV Racing when I'm researching a fuel injector problem), and that's what the mods are for. That, and to curb the more serious rules violations, like one member threatening another (and boy, if you get that jacked up about a topic on an internet forum, you need more help than Greywolf can give you).

If this forum can survive a "Trump for President" thread, I'm pretty sure it'll weather this storm too.

 

know about the kind of people you give your money to.

which is why I choose the local bricks and mortar shop

is Blair ever going to hire me for my professional services, not likely

is Rich ever going to hire me for my professional services, not likely either

if something is posted on the internet, does it make it true

 

Cruiser girl,

I doubt China has much interest in copying a part that "if" successful will sell in the few hundreds. They are more interested in parts that sell in the high hundred of thousands to millions.

The only people who are going to work on a problem with this kind of low return are in the forums they belong to. If you allow them to be squeezed out you will be left with copycats and nothing to copy.

There would not have been a foot peg and control lowering kit to copy had I not persevered for two years to make it so.



Boycott SV Racing

 

Could change the name of the kit from, "Foot Peg and Control Lowering Kit" to, "The Original, Much Copied But Never Duplicated, Foot Peg and Control Lowering Kit" ...

I hate to see such things happen.

 

So, Blair has been stealing other people's work for some time now. With us, he ordered the parts directly from us and gave them to someone to copy and put hgis name on them.

In the past..... Looks like he did the same thing. He simply bought another person product and copied it.

Thumbs up Blair from SV Racing Parts - BARF - Bay Area Riders Forum

Apparently it is what he does.

Boycott SV Racing