Steering damper.

The damper made life a lot less miserable for me. Don't get me wrong, it won't turn it into a DL650 into an RM250 and you can still crash but it will calm down the wiggle-waggle and give you a shot at steering the bike rather than just prolonging the agony.

Knobier tires also help, but really don't help worth a damn without the damper. Certainly the stock tires are useless on anything loose. TKC-80's were the best I found but burn up really quickly. K60's weren't as good on dirt but were tolerable as well as long lasting and for me were better behaved on seal as well. (This is all 10 year old info. there probably are better tires now)

YMMV because a lot depends on how you ride and your riding experience. (Carefully and a lot of years of riding dirt bikes here).

 

Steering damper.

I still don't know of one that will fit a Gen 3 Wee; do you?

 

I agree with Pete and keeping the power on but that can only work for so long.

 

My Wee will lose the front end in a light breeze. Something about geometry and contact patch. Only asphalt for me.

 

Earlier this fall I took an intermediate-level adventure-riding training (www.billdragoo.com) and the 2nd day was dedicated to sand. In the afternoon, we had a ride in very deep sand. The instructors said that because of the especially dry weather of the summer, the sand conditions were the most difficult that they ever saw. Even one instructor who did not have knobby tires did not make it. Out of 8 students, I am the only one with my VS 650 who made it through. The other students had BMW GS, KTMs, etc., all better suited than my VS. Most had knobby tires (as I did).

So, the VStrom can do it. Knobby tires help a lot I think. Secret is Power and Pegs. Use the handlebar to try to stay up-right.

 

I am the only one with my VS 650 who made it through.

Marc, that's a great picture to be posted on a GS forum

 

My .02 ADV type bikes are too front heavy to try to ride like dirt bikes, well yea duh huh?

Trying to lighten the front by moving your weight back and applying power doesn't do much. I take the opposite approach and lean forward to put more weight on the the front. What that does for me anyway is keep the front from wandering around so much. The wandering shifts to the back wheel which is a more normal dirt bike feel to me. The old get the front over and the rest of the bike will follow thang.

Just like on a dirt bike in sand don't use the front brake or let off the gas much when turning. A 500+ bike is going to go where it's momentum takes it so plan accordingly.

 

Good tires and the magic speed with good skills make it possible.
The skills are not easy to acquire.

 

Sand. I love it. And hate it.

The stock Bridgestone A41's are useless on anything soft. Zero traction on soft sand. The rear tire will be spinning and spinning (TC off), and the front will slide. Don't even think about leaning her on sand.

Next I tried the Dunlop Trailmax Mission Tires. Much better, especially at the rear. The fronts....not so much on soft sand. It's ok if you have them aired down at least 6-8 psi from street pressure. But I still lost the front end on really soft sand.

Finally, I got the Shinko 804/805's (similar to Continental TKC 80's). Wow! What a difference! Still should air down about 6-8 psi from street pressure (less if you dare). These tires give you so much more control in sand. You can lean it over too without it sliding and throwing you off. Even at slow speeds.

Untitled by rogue_biker, on Flickr

 

Sand. I love it. And hate it.

The stock Bridgestone A41's are useless on anything soft. Zero traction on soft sand. The rear tire will be spinning and spinning (TC off), and the front will slide. Don't even think about leaning her on sand.

Next I tried the Dunlop Trailmax Mission Tires. Much better, especially at the rear. The fronts....not so much on soft sand. It's ok if you have them aired down at least 6-8 psi from street pressure. But I still lost the front end on really soft sand.

Finally, I got the Shinko 804/805's (similar to Continental TKC 80's). Wow! What a difference! Still should air down about 6-8 psi from street pressure (less if you dare). These tires give you so much more control in sand. You can lean it over too without it sliding and throwing you off. Even at slow speeds.

Untitled by rogue_biker, on Flickr

Great info - how are they on the street?

 

Definitely good tires, but for sand that suspension needs to be stiffened way up. And keep the throttle pinned!

 

A few years back, I had to ride about 1/2 mile in sand when the Rio Grande flooded out the river road between Terlingua and Presidio and they diverted traffic off-road.
I did it, never dropped the bike and sweated off pounds.
So, try riding in sand on a loaded for touring BMW R1150RT with road tires and, more importantly, SWMBO on the back😱
Anything is possible with any bike but, in this instance, I put it all down to years of experience.....and a modicum of sheer luck😉

So, given all that...I would have no issues riding my Wee in sand😁

 

I second the reco on the Shinko 804/805 knobbies. It's as good a DOT knobby as you're gonna get even at a higher price point--think Metzlers--and very stable and grippy on dry pavement. Downside is less traction in the wet and not great life on the pavement (as with any knobby). You're asking a lot of a >500# bike to behave nicely in deep soft sand, but the reco for better front suspension--Racetech straight wound springs and either Gold valves or cartridge insert--plus a steering damper would make it less of a chore. As for me, I strongly recommend a 250-300 cc 2-stroke KTM or similar, proving you can solve any problem with mo' money!!!

 

I strongly recommend a 250-300 cc 2-stroke KTM or similar, proving you can solve any problem with mo' money!!!

This is the answer to all questions

 

For that deep sand I am sure one of these would help...or not, who knows

 

That is one of the most important thing that training taught me. Look as far as possible. Try to plan your path ahead. You are more likely to avoid pitfalls. It also helps a lot with balance. You should definitely scan between far away and close by but with a ratio 90% far away, 10% close by (in case there is something dramatic you missed). Things that are close-by are very hard to avoid anyway. Off-road got much easier for me when I was able to keep looking far away.

BTW, I started off-road only 1 year ago, I have been a motorcycle rider for less 2 years.

 

Look where you want your front wheel to go is a basic tenet of riding especially off-road.

The faster you go the more your vision should be scanning ahead.

 

Lesson in wrong bike or wrong place.

 

There are horses for courses.

 

On my third Bash Plate so far, 2015 DL650...
Built the last one myself, from 6mm Aluminium......
I'm getting more choosey about the trails I ride lately, starting to enjoy the "tar tracks" more than I used to, as long as there is plenty of dirt involved......

 

"Is it at all possible to make the Wee work in soft sand????"
The answer is yes, you need at least some good 50/50 tyres and skills.
I have the 50/50 tyres and I am working on my skills.

 

Which tires specifically?

 

In answer to the question asked. I fixed the suspension on my 650 then had no problems looking ahead even on far worse tracks than that, the steering damper was a few years later.

If the bike isn't being kicked around by every rock or tree root it's a LOT easier.

 

If the bike isn't being kicked around by every rock or tree root it's a LOT easier.

I definitely agree with you there.

What did you do to your suspension? What steering damper did you use?

 

Wilbers rear, Gold Valves or Intiminators up front (both worked), Scotts initially, replaced by one of the Chinese copies when the Scotts died on me (The copy was better made or at least worked and didn't ooze oil from day one). The mounts for the Scotts are the hard to find item.

Transformed the bike on dirt roads, no problems keeping up with KTM990's 1200GS's at all once that was done anywhere clearance wasn't an issue. Handled washboard corners a LOT better than either, I'd ride around without slowing then have to stop, go back and help pull the others out of the ditches they'd pogo'd off the outside of the corners into.

Edit: I moved most of the bits from my Gen 1 bike to my Gen 2, all except the Gold Valves which were replaced by Intiminators (easier install), those were harsher on seal but magic carpet on lumpy dirt roads.

 

Pete can you post a link to the suspension upgrades you used? This is something I would like to upgrade. Thanks

 

I'm thinking of upgrading my '21 VStrom 650 suspension sometime next year. Thanks for the info.

 

Absolutely possible. I had an opportunity to take my 2007 V-Strom to the Oregon dunes last year and in preparation, put on a set of Shinko 805s. We spent 3 days on the dunes, and the entire first day was a collection of tip-overs and digging trenches with the back tire. I had no steering dampener, no suspension adjustments and by day 2, I was hitting the sugar-sand rollers at speed with little fear that I would lose the front.

The same advice that everyone gives is crucial, weight back, keep the speed up (faster is easier), and eyes ahead. There is nothing you can do about the front wheel slipping and sliding in the moment, you just have to trust the physics that it'll keep going straight eventually.

 

Absolutely possible. I had an opportunity to take my 2007 V-Strom to the Oregon dunes last year and in preparation, put on a set of Shinko 805s. We spent 3 days on the dunes, and the entire first day was a collection of tip-overs and digging trenches with the back tire. I had no steering dampener, no suspension adjustments and by day 2, I was hitting the sugar-sand rollers at speed with little fear that I would lose the front.

The same advice that everyone gives is crucial, weight back, keep the speed up (faster is easier), and eyes ahead. There is nothing you can do about the front wheel slipping and sliding in the moment, you just have to trust the physics that it'll keep going straight eventually.

View attachment 295038

View attachment 295040

View attachment 295039

View attachment 295037

IMPRESSIVE!

 

@Naltega you are a champ ... would like to try, but no desserts near by ...however I did find one piece of land with some loose / sand like / top soil, clay sand, and had some fun

 

Nice one Damirio. Did you have your TC on setting #1 or completely off?

 

A41's are good on the street👍

 

Thanks! My OEM tires will likely need changing this coming riding season. I may give these a try👍🏽👍🏽👍🏽

 

A few years back, I experimented with the darkside, initially a winter experiment, but no way to swap back and forth (I have a spare rear wheel to do that now) I ran the car tire year round for a couple years, It worked great in soft deep sand, enuf footprint to keep you on top, mud it worked great as well..... but on solid rocky roots, it throws you all over
......and as my initial intent, winter, successful beyond my wildest expectations

 

Lower tire pressure along with knobbies helps, but a heavy bike in sand is always going to be a problem. A doable problem, but challenging.