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post #1 of 12 Old 08-24-2009, 02:53 PM Thread Starter
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Not another chain question

Yes, I searched. This one is a little different.

I thoroughly cleaned and adjusted the chain the other day, and I noticed two things: First, I need to thoroughly clean my chain more often than I have been, and second, the chain on the rear sprocket rides towards the outside. Both adjusters are dead-even, and looking up the chain from the rear, everything appears to be dead-on straight, but the inside face of the rear sprocket is nice and shiny, and the chain is clearly riding to the outside.

Should I be alarmed? Are there any other checks I can do? Is something else out of alignment maybe?

I'm all ears, gang. Have at it!!
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post #2 of 12 Old 08-26-2009, 11:32 PM
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Since nobody else has replied, here is a little from my personal experience, take it for what it's worth:

1.) The marks for the adjusters can be off. I use one of those 6" steel rulers that is marked in 10ths and 100ths and then find a point to measure the axle position. For example, on the 650 I would measure from the end of the swingarm to the axle. Admittedly, the end of the swing arm can be off, but that's what I used. On the 1000 I measure from the front of the adjuster to the axle.

2.) I use a rubber mallet and tap the axle to the front of the adjusters before I measure and then tighten the axle. On the 1000 you have to use a wooden stick or something to act as a punch to get the axle to move.

3.) I have used the "string method" that is posted on various websites, and all I do is frustrate myself. I've never gotten that method to work well as it depends on having the front wheel aligned exactly straight and for some reason I am always off. Perhaps others could post up if they have had this work.

4.) I have designed a simple tool that will measure the distance between the swingarm bolt and the rear axle (now I gotta go build it). If you can make yourself a tool to do that, you can then measure the distance on either side precisely and determine if you have an alignment problem..

5.) If you have a 1000, depending on the year (I believe), some folks have invested in machining slightly different width spacers to better align the sprockets. You might want to search the forum for that problem. I haven't noticed any rear sprocket wear issues on my 2008 DL1000, but I only have 8200 miles on it so who knows?

That's all I got, I have no idea if any of it is useful to you!

If you figure this out in the meantime, please post your fix.

Steve
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post #3 of 12 Old 08-27-2009, 07:21 AM Thread Starter
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I kind of get the impression that it's a spacer issue... The swingarm is tight and doesn't have any play in it side-to-side, so the only thing that comes to mind is that the spacers are off...
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post #4 of 12 Old 08-27-2009, 11:03 AM
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If you have a center stand, put the bike up on that, and adjust the rear wheel while spinning it so that the chain rides on the rear sprocket dead center, or as much as possible.

There are other various ways that you can check, like measure where the axle is at on each side in relation to the end of the swing arm.

There was one suggestion (I cannot find it for some reason) were someone took some 1/2" EMT Conduit, hanger clams, etc and make a tool to set the distance between the swing arm bolt and the rear axle bolt. This was used after the chain was set, to center the wheel.

Here is the parts list, sorry no pics, but you should be able to figure it out.

******
Materials (all available from your local home improvement store for under $10):
(1) 1/2" EMT Conduit (sold in 10ft sections)
(2)1/2"-1" Zinc Ground Clamps
(2) 1/4 - 20x4 Hangar bolts (pick ones with a pointed end)
(2) Nuts for the 1/4 hangar bolts
(2) 5/8" Hole plugs- Nylon (these are optional- they just look nice)
******

2009 DL650 Oort Gray Metallic Edition
1985 Honda Rebel CMX250C
(Bike rescue/rebuild project)
2003 SV650 Fast Silver Edition

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post #5 of 12 Old 08-27-2009, 01:04 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cdherlils View Post
If you have a center stand, put the bike up on that, and adjust the rear wheel while spinning it so that the chain rides on the rear sprocket dead center, or as much as possible.
It was on the center stand while cleaning and adjusting. But how does adjusting the rear wheel change where the chain rides on the sprocket? Moving the wheel (and, therefore, the sprocket) fore and aft isn't going to change the side-to-side alignment between the drive and driven sprockets. Maybe I'm not clear on what you're describing... can you please clarify?

Quote:
There are other various ways that you can check, like measure where the axle is at on each side in relation to the end of the swing arm.
Where the axle is with respect to the END of the swingarm? Which end?? From the back end? I think not... the two sides of the swingarm could be off by 3/4"... The axle needs to be square to the centerline of the bike. One can only assume that the swingarm pivot would be perpendicular to the centerline and parallel to the axle as indicated by the (supposedly accurate) marks on the swingarm.... no?
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post #6 of 12 Old 08-28-2009, 12:38 AM
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Well what you want to do while the bike is on the center stand, is spin the rear wheel so check to make sure that the chain is riding on the center of the rear sproket, and not mis-aligned and rubbing on one side of the sprocket.

What you are essentially and want to do is line up the rear sprocket so that it points at and lines up perfectly with the front sprocket.

In essence, you are correct, you want the rear axle to be perpendictual to the center line of the bike, but more importantly parallel to the output shaft.

Because you are rubbing on the inside of the rear sprocket, looking from the top of the bike down, your rear wheel is slightly pointed to the right. You will need to readjust the rear axle to turn it a little more to the left. When the rear wheel is facing forward the chain will ride nicely on the rear sprocket with out really wearing on either side. If for say your rear sprocket is wearing or riding more on the outside of the sprocket, then your rear wheel (again looking from above down) is too much to the left and you need to pull it to the right.

I have read that the marks on the rear swing arm are off, but I have not adjusted my chain yet and do not know this to be true.

Here is the page that I was trying to find earlier:
https://www.stromtrooper.com/forums/s...ad.php?t=20530

More precisely here is a home made tool that can be used to check the distance between your swing arm bolts and your axle bolts to true the rear wheel:
http://forums.ninja250.org/viewtopic...1ba55b6#668685

What this is saying essentially, if the distance between your swing arm bolt, and rear axle bolt are the same on both sides, then your rear wheel is straight.

2009 DL650 Oort Gray Metallic Edition
1985 Honda Rebel CMX250C
(Bike rescue/rebuild project)
2003 SV650 Fast Silver Edition

If it aint broke, take it apart and make it better.
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post #7 of 12 Old 08-29-2009, 06:18 PM
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Well if it's a 1000 it's probably a spacer issue ,do a search and fix it .

As you admitt you should clean it more often , how about some simple 90 weigh diff oil on the chain more often ,you are getting a polished surface on the sprocket generally because of a lack of lubrication.
I use 9o weight oil because it dose not fling off as much as engine oil ,you could use chain saw oil .

Graham Downunder
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post #8 of 12 Old 08-30-2009, 12:26 AM
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A better way.

I am fairly convinced there are no marks or points of reference on the swing arm that are effective for aligning the sprockets.

Given that you can't really reposition the counter sprocket, focus on aligning the rear sprocket. Use a piece of string, tie it to a link, make sure it touches flush on both sprockets. It's surprisingly easy to measure a slight misalignment this way.

After doing this, the chain will still rest on the outside, but it won't wear down the inside of the teeth. It will look relaxed when you spin the wheel and ride better.

Materials needed:
1. Kite string.

[I read one post of a strommer who meticulously counted turns of the adjustments screws from the day it was delivered from the dealer. But you have to assume the dealer had it spot on, and if you messed up, the only recourse would be to cry. :bom_bigcry:]

I'm not going to say the people who spent all that time machining spacers are wrong, but I wonder if it's as bad as it's made out to be. If you are worried about the tires and the sprocket being perfectly aligned, you may need the spacer.

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post #9 of 12 Old 08-30-2009, 12:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xen View Post
I am fairly convinced there are no marks or points of reference on the swing arm that are effective for aligning the sprockets.
You're right. The index marks on the swingarm can't be trusted. It's the positioning of the spacers in relationship to the questionable index marks that causes concern. But there is a way to get a reliable measurement. I measure from the ends of the left and right spacers to the end of the swingarm. I've used this method with all my bikes and it does produce reliable results.

SS

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1985 RZ500
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post #10 of 12 Old 09-03-2009, 01:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xen View Post

Given that you can't really reposition the counter sprocket, focus on aligning the rear sprocket. Use a piece of string, tie it to a link, make sure it touches flush on both sprockets. It's surprisingly easy to measure a slight misalignment this way.

After doing this, the chain will still rest on the outside, but it won't wear down the inside of the teeth. It will look relaxed when you spin the wheel and ride better.
So what you are saying, is that if I get some string, and tie to to the chain (knot in the middle of the chain so that the string runs down the center of the chain) then maybe roll the wheel back so that the string is wrapped around the rear sprocket, then proceed to tie the other end (same fashion) and then roll the chain forward so that the front of the string touches or is slightly wrapped on the front sprocket, you should be able to compare the alignment of the string and compare it with the chain?

2009 DL650 Oort Gray Metallic Edition
1985 Honda Rebel CMX250C
(Bike rescue/rebuild project)
2003 SV650 Fast Silver Edition

If it aint broke, take it apart and make it better.
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