Where do the vacuum caps go? - Stromtrooper Forum : Suzuki V-Strom Motorcycle Forums
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post #1 of 10 Old 05-20-2009, 10:11 AM Thread Starter
gbw
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Where do the vacuum caps go?

So I was trying to put the vacuum caps back on my 08 Vee after a failed TBS. As I was wedging my hand into the engine to put the cap on the #2 TB the cap fell out of my fingers and disappeared. I search and search, got the flashlight out and searched again. Can't find the dang thing anywhere.

So, I go buy more vacuum caps. I grab one, wedge my hand back in there, and I'll be damned if I didn't drop it as well. Just like the first, it disappeared completely! Can't find it to save my life.

Is there some small black hole under the TBs that sucks up dropped parts? Where the heck could they have gone?

gbw
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77 GS750 Black
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post #2 of 10 Old 05-20-2009, 10:38 AM
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What's your time worth? They're cheap. Either buy a bunch more, or go with the preferable option of installing the extension tubes for future TBS's.

Care to elaborate on the failed TBS?
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post #3 of 10 Old 05-20-2009, 11:03 AM
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As you state, it is difficult putting those back on. I made extensions from the approriate diamater tubing and then a cap on the end of the extension.

Cheers!

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post #4 of 10 Old 05-20-2009, 11:15 AM
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Quote:
Is there some small black hole under the TBs that sucks up dropped parts?
I bet if you find it, you will also find all those missing socks too.

+1 on the extension tubes. Those little caps are a bitch to get at where they are now.

When I dropped one I did eventually find it on the engine case though. Never did find the little spring clip that went sailing off somewhere in my workshop. I heard it ping off the wall though.
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post #5 of 10 Old 05-20-2009, 12:46 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by WeThereYet View Post
What's your time worth? They're cheap. Either buy a bunch more, or go with the preferable option of installing the extension tubes for future TBS's.

Care to elaborate on the failed TBS?
yeah, I bought the 5/32" inch tubing, and some spare caps, but the store was out of 5/32" couplers, so no way to complete the sync properly. Will try another store later today.

I was going to post my woes about the TBS in another thread, but not until I went back thru everything. I've been reading a lot of other posts and I suspect I just missed putting something back together correctly.

The short version of the story (actually, after typing it I realize it is not so short) is that I have the common stumbling/serging in low RPM on my Vee. I decided to sync the secondaries, then do the TBS, then the TPS and see if that works or if I need to spring for PCIII.

Anyway, what a pain to get the tank and airbox out. I'm used to working on my 77 GS750, so all the fairings and connectors were a big surprise. I got the secondaries dialed in with my digital calipers...required a full turn of the adjustment screw to get them in sync.

I put it all back together and started to sync the throttle bodies with my Morgan Carb Tune, but once the bike warmed up it started popping a lot thru the TBs...a lot...once it popped very loudly and made me nervous. It has never done this before so it was pretty discouraging that I'd done all this work and the bike runs worse.

So, I figured that my sync tubes were a little loose on the TB nipples...the inside diameter is noticeably bigger than that of the caps. I also noticed that I left the #2 airbox clamp loose. So, I put the caps back on (after a trip to the parts store to replace the lost one) and tightened the clamp.

After starting the bike it ran nice until it got warm and then it popped once, pretty loud. It didn't do it again after that, but it was getting late and I decided I'd let her sleep for the night.

My plan for today is to get some 5/32" vacuum couplers and make the carb tune (oops, TB sync) connection tight, take everything apart and make sure the TBs are still in good contact with the intake manifold (if that is still what you call it on these fancy new bikes), make sure I have all the airbox connections secure and the lid is on correctly, then start over from scratch on the TBS.

Thanks for the interest. Any advise is appreciated.

gbw
08 DL1000 Black
77 GS750 Black
Pics of both bike and other stuff at [url]http://s222.photobucket.com/albums/dd52/77GS750/[/url]
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post #6 of 10 Old 05-20-2009, 03:03 PM
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You didn't say anything about the mileage on this bike, or your experience in both riding it and working on it, so don't take offence to any of these questions.

How many miles on it? Don't even think of screwing with it until you've put a couple of thousand on it.

How bad is the "common stumbling and surging" at low rpm, and what rpm are you talking about? Your bike is an 08, not the dreaded 05 / early 06 that had the real surging problem. Is it the very slight, hardly noticeable surge when you are neither on or off the throttle? If it is it is hardly worth worrying about. You probably won't NEED a PCIII. These bikes like to run at 4000 or over. You can run it at less but they aren't as smooth. If you are putting around at 2500 or under then this could be part of your problem.

One full turn of the screw is usually way too much. You also don't even start adjusting until the bike is at three bars on the temperature guage, and the idle is set to 1400 rpms. It takes just a slight bump on the screw to make it move either way. You will also get a popping and backfiring if you twist or move the linkage that holds the TB adjusting screw. You turn the screw, only.

Are you turning the right screw? The one you want is the lower if the two on that side of the TB.

5/32 id tube is what you need, and it is fine.

If it is a low mile bike, your TB boots and TPS are probably fine. Get your TB's back where they belong and ride the bike until you rack up some miles. Also understand that it doesn't feel like an inline 4 and shouldn't be ridden as such.
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post #7 of 10 Old 05-20-2009, 03:48 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WeThereYet View Post
...don't take offence to any of these questions.
None taken. Actually I'm quite appreciative of your interest.

Quote:
Originally Posted by WeThereYet View Post
...How many miles on it?
Bought it with 2500 on the clock, now have 5000 on it.

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Originally Posted by WeThereYet View Post
...How bad is the "common stumbling and surging" at low rpm, and what rpm are you talking about?
Not terrible, but very noticeable. I was riding the twisties in southern Indiana this weekend and going around some 25mph curves in 2nd gear. I tried to get my approach speed right, then when I put on the throttle, or try to keep a steady throttle thru the curve the surge/stutter wants to upset the bike. It is also noticeable in 6th at 55mph on the highway. Once I'm at 65 its not a problem.

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You probably won't NEED a PCIII...
Good news. I don't really want to buy one.

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Originally Posted by WeThereYet View Post
If you are putting around at 2500 or under then this could be part of your problem.
Sometimes I find it hard to avoid this rpm range, like putting thru Chicago traffic or riding thru residential areas in the burbs.

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...One full turn of the screw is usually way too much.
Slight misunderstanding here. One full turn of the screw to get the secondaries lined up. Not one full turn on the TBS adjustment.

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Originally Posted by WeThereYet View Post
Are you turning the right screw? The one you want is the lower if the two on that side of the TB.
Yes, when I was doing the TBS I turned the correct screw. Very minor turns of the screw have real impact on the balance, but because of the TB popping I could not finish the job.

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Also understand that it doesn't feel like an inline 4 and shouldn't be ridden as such.
Yeah, I'm still trying to get used to this twin. I'm more used to the 4, but I really like this bike.

Quick update: over lunch I went out and took the tank and airbox off again. The #2 TB had popped out of the intake manifold boot. I bet that was the loud pop I heard last night. Probably due to my manometer hoses being loose on the nipple.

I got that tightened back up and put the 5/32" hoses on the vacuum nipples. After work I'll finish putting it back together and see if I can get a good TBS on it and take it for a ride.

Really appreciate your questions and advice.

gbw
08 DL1000 Black
77 GS750 Black
Pics of both bike and other stuff at [url]http://s222.photobucket.com/albums/dd52/77GS750/[/url]
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post #8 of 10 Old 05-20-2009, 04:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gbw View Post

1) None taken. Actually I'm quite appreciative of your interest.

2) Bought it with 2500 on the clock, now have 5000 on it.

3) Not terrible, but very noticeable. I was riding the twisties in southern Indiana this weekend and going around some 25mph curves in 2nd gear. I tried to get my approach speed right, then when I put on the throttle, or try to keep a steady throttle thru the curve the surge/stutter wants to upset the bike. It is also noticeable in 6th at 55mph on the highway. Once I'm at 65 its not a problem.


4) Sometimes I find it hard to avoid this rpm range, like putting thru Chicago traffic or riding thru residential areas in the burbs.

5) Quick update: over lunch I went out and took the tank and airbox off again. The #2 TB had popped out of the intake manifold boot. I bet that was the loud pop I heard last night. Probably due to my manometer hoses being loose on the nipple.
1) Excellent. Happy to help.

2) Even better. You have a pretty good idea how your bike is supposed to behave.

3) It shouldn't be surging or stuttering like that at 25 mph in second. Are you talking about a consistent stuttering / bucking, or just the occasional "burp". The burp is common and can be tuned out. 55mph on the highway in 6th is too low a rpm. You are probably under 3000 at that point. With the stock gearing you shouln't even entertain the idea of OD until 65 mph plus.

4) For what it is worth, I run at 4000 no matter what gear I'm in. It is the best combination of rpm, economy, torque and engine braking. Try that and see if you like it. The bike doesn't mind, in fact it loves it.

5) BINGO. This will be the big part of your TBS problem. get it restored and adjusted, and vary your riding style to see if the bike works better for you.

Another thing to consider is going up a couple of teeth on the rear sprocket. It makes for a much better bike, both in town and on the highway. My 43T rear sprocket lets me run at 3800 rpm in OD at an honest 60 mph. 4000 in 5th with the stock gearing is comfortable on the highway as well. The 43T rear is very usable through town in 1st thru 4th.

Keep us posted.

Last edited by WeThereYet; 05-20-2009 at 05:04 PM.
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post #9 of 10 Old 05-21-2009, 03:19 PM Thread Starter
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Keep us posted.
Ok, final chapter. After work last night I buttoned her up, making sure all the TB connections and clamps were tight and all the hoses and connections were made. She ran great and I put a nice tight TBS on her.

A brief ride last night was inconclusive. I rode for an hour or so today at lunch and still am not sure. At least I don't think I screwed anything up too bad, but in reality I don't think I accomplished anything either, except losing a perfectly good vacuum cap.

Now that I'm done I've noticed two things. Granted, I have not ridden much since last night but these two things have happened some since then. First, the idle is set to about 1250, but sometimes it creeps down to 1000. Second, when it creeps down to 1000, sometimes it pops/sneezes thru the TBs and stalls. This never (or almost never...maybe once or twice in 2500 miles) happened before. Now that I've done the work it seems a little more regular (2 or 3 times last night in the garage and once today while riding). I'll keep an eye on it over this weekend (going on a 1000+ mile trip to the Ozarks) and see how it goes.

Thanks again for all the info and advice. I'm trying to ride it more like you describe...keeping around 4k rpm regardless of gear. I'll see how that works that weekend as well.

Have a great day!

gbw
08 DL1000 Black
77 GS750 Black
Pics of both bike and other stuff at [url]http://s222.photobucket.com/albums/dd52/77GS750/[/url]
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post #10 of 10 Old 05-21-2009, 03:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gbw View Post

1) First, the idle is set to about 1250, but sometimes it creeps down to 1000.

2) Second, when it creeps down to 1000, sometimes it pops/sneezes thru the TBs and stalls. This never (or almost never...maybe once or twice in 2500 miles) happened before. Now that I've done the work it seems a little more regular (2 or 3 times last night in the garage and once today while riding).

3) Thanks again for all the info and advice. I'm trying to ride it more like you describe...keeping around 4k rpm regardless of gear. I'll see how that works that weekend as well.
1) Try the idle speed at 1100. 1250 is pretty high and may result in a slower return to idle. 1000 is pretty low, on my bike anyway. I've found the best compromise to be 1100-1150.

2) My bike would occasionaly "sneeze", but it was usually at 2800 rpm / light throttle, never at idle. I could tune it out by keeping the TBS spot on. The last sneeze / burp was at about 4000 km, and it has 19,000 km on it now. Perhaps hang the guage again and see if it is still level.

3) 4000 and above. No real need to be any less.

Good luck.

Last edited by WeThereYet; 05-24-2009 at 12:08 AM.
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