False neutrals and side effects thereof????? - Stromtrooper Forum : Suzuki V-Strom Motorcycle Forums
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post #1 of 20 Old 03-06-2005, 04:09 PM Thread Starter
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False neutrals and side effects thereof?????

OK gang. I have waxed eloquent on this before but want to see some smarter wrenches than me jump in.

I have now had, in the short span of 1500 miles, more 'false neutrals' on this one bike than I have had on all motorcycles I have owned or ridden, combined, over almost 30 years of riding. Always the same: either 4-5 upshift or 5-6 when accelerating. Coast to the shoulder [not always safe] then work it back into some useful gear.

Is there something loose on these bikes? the distance between those gears is cavernous compared to, say, the Roadstar cruiser I had which is like 'click' 'click' from one to another... very short little throws.

Plus, I don't think the following is my imagination hard at work:
- whenever I encounter one of these, the shifting of the trans is very gimpy for hours. What I mean is I immediately notice that each shift thereafter is gritty... not a lot of noise, but I can feel crunchiness in the shift through my foot. Its as though the clutch is not fully engaging/disengaging, or maybe the synchronizers are out of whack? Since I don't know what the inside of that box is supposed to work like, I don't have a theory. Usually on a full cooldown and then the next drive, it feels pretty normal again.

ANy clues? Has anyone had a good service tech take a look at one that behaves this way?

Zapp

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post #2 of 20 Old 03-06-2005, 07:20 PM
MNwilly
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Iv'e never had a false neutral other than between 1-2 on any bike. I have noticed it can be tough to upshift sometimes but the bike only has 200 mles on it and I think that will improve when the gearbox is broken in all the way.
post #3 of 20 Old 03-06-2005, 10:47 PM
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Bought my bike in December and it's coming up on 4000 miles. Broke it in by the book. Went to Rotella 15W40 on the first oil change (600 miles), second change at 2500 miles, clean and lube chain at 350 to 400 mile intervals and made one chain adjustment. Otherwise nothing but trouble free operation (knock-knock).
Two gear shifting issues:
1.The shift leaver had to be adjusted (repositioned). It just didn't match up with my clumsy foot motion when shifting.
2.The first shift of the day (neutral to low) does not clunk the way my other bikes do/did. That is a problem only in that it makes me nervous. I worry that it will jump out of gear, but so far that hasnít happened. After warm-up this returns to normal and there is an auditable click when shifting from neutral to low. All other gear changes feel normal.
I may be headed for trouble in the future but only times and miles will tell that tale, but based on the contrast in our two bikes, my feeling is that you need to take this issue up with trained professional. I donít know how common it is but I have heard stories (from what I believe to be a reliable sources) of motorcycle transmissions getting locked up it two gears at the same time. As I understand it automobile and motorcycle transmissions are very different and bike gearboxes are frail by comparison.
Old George

Too soon we get old --- Too late we get smart
Ex owner 04 DL650
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post #4 of 20 Old 03-07-2005, 02:01 PM
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Zapp, you're not alone. Yes, the DL650 is prone to 4-5 and 5-6 false neutrals--more than all the other bikes I've ridden, too. But don't worry, they diminish over time. To get a longer-term perspective, go to the svrider.com board and do a search on false neutrals. The SV650 and DL650 have very similar gear boxes and both have the same tendency. But on the bright side, neither bike seems to have a tendency toward gear box failure. As for shift throw length, some bikes are better, some worse. Take Mariah's advice to heart: adjust your shifter lever down a little. And then maybe a little more--there is no "stock" lever position. It needs to be adjusted for each person (and even each pair of boots!) so that you've got the right foot position comfort as well as adequate foot leverage for solid upshifts. If you can, ride someone else's to compare. Honestly, I think your bike is probably OK. If it really is semi-broken, then ride hell out of it to break the rest of the way before the warranty is up.

moto_potato
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post #5 of 20 Old 03-07-2005, 06:38 PM
pif
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I finally put my first miles on the bike today!!!!! Temps in the 20's/30's but after missing the nice day (60's) yesterday, I had to take action. The heated grips I installed, worked and everything else was ok. I'm doing the moto man break in method. So I put 50 miles and changed the oil and filter right away. The bike ran smooth but right away I noticed false neutral beetween 2 and 3, also 3 and 4. I had to really play the shifter to switch!!! On the way back, it seemed to get a little better, also I was getting used to the bike. When it was not shifting, a little trick I was doing, was pushing the shifter a bit down to kind of engaged it, after that shifting was ok (no need to coast on the side). So I suspect the shifter not be adjusted properly also the whole thing needs to get more miles... So I'm not to worry, but I'll keep an eye on this glintch.
Pif.
post #6 of 20 Old 03-08-2005, 10:03 AM Thread Starter
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good idea moto-p
I'll put another couple hundred on today the hard way!!! haarrrrr

8)

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post #7 of 20 Old 03-08-2005, 10:06 PM
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Never had any false neutrals on mine. I did find that I had to followup on my shifts from 1st into 2nd or it would not go into 3rd on the first attempt. I thought it was the bike, it was me. The gear box is not a slick as on my GS500. Almost 8,000 miles and no issues on mine to date.
Going to let the plugs go until about 10,000 miles. Everyone that checks them at 7,500 said that they could go a lot further.

2004 V-Strom 650
2002 GS500
2004 KLR250
2014 DRZ400
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post #8 of 20 Old 03-09-2005, 08:19 AM Thread Starter
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re: Mike's comment. See, this is what bugs me. From reading the responses here and on other [i'm sure ... lesser...]forums, it appears that a handful of SV's and DL's have this problem, and the ones that have it have it for a long time, like the life of the bike. Others NEVER experience it, even if the rider is inexperienced. That tells me that something gets mis-installed or tweaked at assembly time, or there are some out of spec parts involved [been there].

I'm going to call a couple of Suzi dealer sservice departments and ask about both SV and DL having this issue and see if there is any sort of tech svc bulleting or wrenchnote on it

Z

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post #9 of 20 Old 03-11-2005, 10:24 PM
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Hi,
only a false between 5 - 6 once or twice, in 6000 miles.

Let me ask you. Have you adjusted the clutch?
I adjusted the cluth exactly the way they say to in the service manual.
It seems to have made shifting less klunly..

It's a little unorthodox... They say scew the adjuter at the lever all the way in... (as in) take all the adjutment out there..

then Adjust it at the engine... using the screw where the cable meet the shaft... Loosen screw, turn some special nut Bla Bla Bla... dont know all the exact details right here/now... but Look it up in the service Manual..

It made my clutch feel better...
try it cant hurt ...

My bigest problem/ complaint is the downshift from 2nd to N to 1st.

If I stay in Nuetral too long, I grind going into first.

I must quickly stab it from 2nd straight to first... then it slips in nice & quiet.. as I said any lingering in nuetral ... GRRRHHRRHRHRRHR KlUNK

So, not a big deal reallly, My solution works well...

My nephew has an SV with 18,000 miles Trans Feels Like an wet weiner sliding into a velvet purse............slick..
So, with mileage these things may loosen up nice.

I also have been running Amsoil Pure Synth 10-40

04 DL-650
Have a good time, ALL the time !
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post #10 of 20 Old 03-13-2005, 05:33 PM Thread Starter
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chris
thanks for the tip. I did not know of the procedure. have the service man so I'll look 'er up

re oil: i switched from Rotella T heavy duty 15/40 to the syth 5/40 and the bike does not seem to like it very much. grindy/crunchy. I was looking for Mobil 4-stroke cycle oil but no one had, and there are no amsoil dealers nearby to my knowledge. what's a body to do....

z

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