Making watts, how much is too much? - Stromtrooper Forum : Suzuki V-Strom Motorcycle Forums
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post #1 of 10 Old 03-28-2008, 11:59 PM Thread Starter
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Making watts, how much is too much?

My 07 Wee will be expected to produce pretty much all the watts it can. But when is too much too much?

I have a Datel Digital Voltmeter to look at when the accessories are turned on. It appears happiest at 14.5 VDC when the engine is turning nominal RPM. But there is some droppage when the motor spins down to idle.

How much of a drop in Voltage is no big deal? 14.0? 13.5? 13? Lower? Or is it a matter of how long the voltage drops?

I can turn the accessories off very easily while riding. Is it worth it to turn them off if I'm only stopping at one average stoplight?

Cory
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post #2 of 10 Old 03-29-2008, 12:31 AM
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It depends on how long and what load. 12.6-12.8V, depending on the voltage drop in the lines to the voltmeter and the battery condition, is neutral. More than that and the system is charging. Less and the system is discharging. A stoplight now and again shouldn't be a problem if it's charging while running.

Pat- 2007 DL650A was ridden to all 48 contiguous states. I didn't quite make it to 17,000 miles on the 2012 DL650A.
Nicknames I use to lessen typing, Vee = 2002-2012 DL1000s. Vee2=2014-2016 DL1000s. Wee = 2004-2011 DL650s. Glee = 2012-2016 DL650s
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post #3 of 10 Old 03-29-2008, 08:27 AM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by greywolf View Post
It depends on how long and what load. 12.6-12.8V, depending on the voltage drop in the lines to the voltmeter and the battery condition, is neutral. More than that and the system is charging. Less and the system is discharging. A stoplight now and again shouldn't be a problem if it's charging while running.
Well gee, I feel kinda slow because it didn't even cross my mind to consider what neutral battery voltage is. Sheesh. Now I'll measure the battery's voltage at the battery terminals and at the voltmeter. I'll try this at idle no accessories and with accessories on. That will give me a pretty clear idea of what the system is doing. Thanks for the wake up call Pat, I needed that.

Next question, is it hard on a Rectifier/Regulator for the output voltage to drop? Would that be somewhat like the strain on a battery if the voltage is drawn down? In other words, if the R/R output voltage drops a volt or more to say 13.5V, is that stressing the R/R? Or is that as easy for the R/R as less water is in a pipe for a plumbing system?

Cory
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post #4 of 10 Old 03-29-2008, 08:39 AM
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The idea here is to keep the battery voltage above the fully charged threshold of 12.6 - 12.8 volts when the bike is running. If it drops below that, the battery is discharging to keep the bike running and if you run it long enough under this condition, you won't have enough battery power to restart the bike.

-Tom (DL650AL2) (KA1TOX) (E-I-E-I-O)

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post #5 of 10 Old 03-29-2008, 08:57 AM
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Do not not concerned about the r/r. Reports of them failing are few and far between. They in fact work harder with a light load. The Stroms have permanent magnet rotors circling the stator windings. The electrical output varies with rpm but not load. The lighter the load, the more power the rectifier turns into heat and dissipates it through its cooling fins. A heavier load puts more of the power to use.

Pat- 2007 DL650A was ridden to all 48 contiguous states. I didn't quite make it to 17,000 miles on the 2012 DL650A.
Nicknames I use to lessen typing, Vee = 2002-2012 DL1000s. Vee2=2014-2016 DL1000s. Wee = 2004-2011 DL650s. Glee = 2012-2016 DL650s
See https://www.stromtrooper.com/general-...nicknames.html

Please vote in the poll on what Strom(s) you have at https://www.stromtrooper.com/informat...-you-have.html
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post #6 of 10 Old 03-29-2008, 09:07 AM
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Quote:
Next question, is it hard on a Rectifier/Regulator for the output voltage to drop? Would that be somewhat like the strain on a battery if the voltage is drawn down? In other words, if the R/R output voltage drops a volt or more to say 13.5V, is that stressing the R/R? Or is that as easy for the R/R as less water is in a pipe for a plumbing system?
You are trying to lump three electronic terms into one and it doesn't work like that.

VOLTAGE - Electromotive force, or effectively electrical "Pressure". Compare it to the pressure of water in a water system.

CURRENT - The flow of electrons through a conductor, measured in Amperes (or Amps). Compare this to the actual water that is moving through a pipe. How much water depends on the size of the pipe and how much pressure is behind it.

WATTS - DC circuits only since AC circuits are slightly different. The product of Volts and Amps (Voltage x Amps = Watts; 12 Volts x 10 Amps = 120 Watts). In a water analogy, the amount of time it would take to fill a bucket with water based on the pressure and volume of flow.

Additionally there are two components of the R/R. The alternator generates multi-phase AC. The RECTIFIER section converts that from alternating current (AC) into direct current (DC) which the battery can use. AC flows in both directions whereas DC flows in one direction, and storage batteries can only handle DC. Note that these are CURRENT values, not voltage.

The faster the alternator spins the higher the voltage of the electricity that it generates. At zero speed the electrical output is, obviously, zero. At higher speeds the voltage (not the current) can exceed the limits of the electrical system. The REGULATOR limits the high voltage to what they system can handle. High voltages can destroy the battery and other electronic components.

Any time current is flowing heat is generated. More current equals more heat. The conductors on the R/R, as well as the circuitry itself, are generally designed to handle the maximum amount of current that the alternator can produce without time limitations. They will get HOT but normally will not fail up to the rated value. Generally speaking as long as you don't overload the charging system you should be OK.

Honda had a problem for several years with some of their R/R components. They would fail under normal circumstances without any aftermarket electrical loads installed. In fact some people were switching them out for Suzuki components. Early CBR and VFR models were (and still "Are" since many of them are still on the street) notorious for blowing R/R components simply because they overheated.

Scott Craig - Nashville, TN
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post #7 of 10 Old 03-29-2008, 09:20 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SCraig View Post
You are trying to lump three electronic terms into one and it doesn't work like that.

VOLTAGE - Electromotive force, or effectively electrical "Pressure". Compare it to the pressure of water in a water system.

CURRENT - The flow of electrons through a conductor, measured in Amperes (or Amps). Compare this to the actual water that is moving through a pipe. How much water depends on the size of the pipe and how much pressure is behind it.

WATTS - DC circuits only since AC circuits are slightly different. The product of Volts and Amps (Voltage x Amps = Watts; 12 Volts x 10 Amps = 120 Watts). In a water analogy, the amount of time it would take to fill a bucket with water based on the pressure and volume of flow.

Additionally there are two components of the R/R. The alternator generates multi-phase AC. The RECTIFIER section converts that from alternating current (AC) into direct current (DC) which the battery can use. AC flows in both directions whereas DC flows in one direction, and storage batteries can only handle DC. Note that these are CURRENT values, not voltage.

The faster the alternator spins the higher the voltage of the electricity that it generates. At zero speed the electrical output is, obviously, zero. At higher speeds the voltage (not the current) can exceed the limits of the electrical system. The REGULATOR limits the high voltage to what they system can handle. High voltages can destroy the battery and other electronic components.

Any time current is flowing heat is generated. More current equals more heat. The conductors on the R/R, as well as the circuitry itself, are generally designed to handle the maximum amount of current that the alternator can produce without time limitations. They will get HOT but normally will not fail up to the rated value. Generally speaking as long as you don't overload the charging system you should be OK.

Honda had a problem for several years with some of their R/R components. They would fail under normal circumstances without any aftermarket electrical loads installed. In fact some people were switching them out for Suzuki components. Early CBR and VFR models were (and still "Are" since many of them are still on the street) notorious for blowing R/R components simply because they overheated.

So the V-Strom R/R is not likely to fail. My concern is answered by all the replies, but I am still not quite understanding one thing. (Well maybe more than one thing :mrgreen:.)

From your description it sounds like the R/R will not be stressed because the charging voltage drops. Is that correct?

Cory
07 DL650A
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post #8 of 10 Old 03-29-2008, 09:34 AM
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Quote:
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From your description it sounds like the R/R will not be stressed because the charging voltage drops. Is that correct?
That's correct. The accessories are just using more of the available power. As long as the system is spending almost all of its time over 12.6-12.8V and the voltage is not going above a real 14.8V (14.5 indicated is probably your case), you are fine.

Pat- 2007 DL650A was ridden to all 48 contiguous states. I didn't quite make it to 17,000 miles on the 2012 DL650A.
Nicknames I use to lessen typing, Vee = 2002-2012 DL1000s. Vee2=2014-2016 DL1000s. Wee = 2004-2011 DL650s. Glee = 2012-2016 DL650s
See https://www.stromtrooper.com/general-...nicknames.html

Please vote in the poll on what Strom(s) you have at https://www.stromtrooper.com/informat...-you-have.html

Last edited by greywolf; 03-29-2008 at 09:37 AM.
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post #9 of 10 Old 03-29-2008, 10:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by greywolf View Post
That's correct. The accessories are just using more of the available power. As long as the system is spending almost all of its time over 12.6-12.8V and the voltage is not going above a real 14.8V (14.5 indicated is probably your case), you are fine.
I made a gear indicator / voltmeter this winter and originally set the voltmeter to display if the voltage went below 12.8 volts or above 14.8 volts. Discovered that my VStrom under light load / high RPM routinely exceeds 14.8 (hitting 15.1 volts on a freshly calibrated Fluke 196), and the service manual gives a spec of 14.0 to 15.5 at 5000 rpm. I "think" the voltage regulator is likely temperature compensated and at cold temperatures may go well above 14.8 voltages.

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post #10 of 10 Old 03-29-2008, 10:54 AM
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All that is in the ballpark. 14.8 is usually considered optimal for standard conditions but it isn't a hard number.

Pat- 2007 DL650A was ridden to all 48 contiguous states. I didn't quite make it to 17,000 miles on the 2012 DL650A.
Nicknames I use to lessen typing, Vee = 2002-2012 DL1000s. Vee2=2014-2016 DL1000s. Wee = 2004-2011 DL650s. Glee = 2012-2016 DL650s
See https://www.stromtrooper.com/general-...nicknames.html

Please vote in the poll on what Strom(s) you have at https://www.stromtrooper.com/informat...-you-have.html
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