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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Granted, I've not been motorcycling for a bunch of years, but in the few that I have, I have never understood why motorcycle jacket and pant manufacturers address wind and water issues with a LINER that goes on the INSIDE of the jacket or pants, rather than a SHELL that goes over the top of the jacket or pants. I'm guessing that I'm missing something here, but from my logic, using a shell is so very much easier/practical. First, it's easier to put on and off - not having to go throught the hassle of putting the liner inside the coat if it looks like it might rain, then pull it out of the coat when it's done raining. Second, by going over the jacket or pants, it keeps the jacket and pants dry as well as the rider dry. Otherwise, the jacket and pants get wet with a liner.

I know there must be a reason for the liner approach rather than the shell approach - can someone tell me the likely obvious? Thanks!
 

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I don't care which way it is as long as it keeps me dry and my new Tourmaster Air 3 did just that this weekend. I like the way the liner works on this jacket as it is the Hi Viz yellow jacket. :thumbup:
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
I'm with you on the top priority of being dry. But when the rain goes away and the sun comes out on a ride, why does one have to take one's pants off and strip down to his shorts along side the road in order to remove a liner when it'd be a lot easier to remove a shell and leave ones pants on? :)
 

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I think you have asked the question that has an oblique answer. I've wonder about the sense of it myself. Makes no logic to saturate the outer garment in a down pour. Other that makes said garment porous to the wind for those hot days when your liner is safely tucked in the side case.
I bought a Hein Gerike jacket with liner for $30 at a rally just for the liner. It's great light weight jacket on it's own.
I carry rain gear for those really nasty occasions that the Aerostitch gets wet through and through.
Oh, just golly, too much gear!
 

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So that your riding jacket with all it's pockets is always on the outside?
I sometimes wear shorts so if I need to add/remove my pants liner I'm not fussing around in my underwear.
 

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For one thing, the shell is what meets the road in a drop. With the liner inside, you have a chance of having functional gear after going down.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Thought about that but a shell could just as easily have some handy pockets. I come from a hiking background and the rain shells are designed for just that reason. Which is why I pack one of my hiking shells when motorcycling. But that still doesn't explain why the mcycle jacket manufacturer couldn't go the shell route with the main jacket instead of a liner . . .
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
True. However A person can still access a fair bit of the stuff from the regular coat pockets when stopped . . .easier than the hassle of removing liners.

For one thing, the shell is what meets the road in a drop. With the liner inside, you have a chance of having functional gear after going down.
 

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I wear the liner when it's cold and Frogg Toggs when it rains. Further thought is of little return benefit for me.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Thanks, all, for your great input and perspectives. All valid ideas for the benefits of liners and shells and that folks will end up with both it would seem since neither one by itself as currently made will totally meet the defined needs. . .
 

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Change is coming. Technology is changing faster than the price point, however.


I know of one Belgian motorcycle clothing maker, Richa, using this Swiss fabric treatment; there may be others.
 

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This liner issue is one of my pet peeves about motorcycle apparel.

I discovered a long time ago that the most versatile combination for me (ie: widest temperature range) is to wear a mesh jacket and pants with raingear on top when needed for warmth. All those little holes in the mesh now become air cells and provide suprisingly good insulation.

Under the mesh gear I can add fleece or electric clothing if needed, but the simple combination above will let me ride in pretty cool weather.

When I buy a mesh jacket, the first thing I do is throw away the liner. I use a brightly colored rain jacket that fits just right over the mesh jacket. You don't want it to flap in the wind. You must wear your mesh jacket to a store and try on the rain jackets over it. We have Columbia Sportwear outlet stores here so it costs only about $25 for bright red or blue waterproof jackets that are tough enough to use for riding. No hi-viz available yet.

I have black rain pants from the local Cycle Gear store that go over my mesh pants.

Why don't the manufacturers offer something like this? I think it is due to the cost of offering the rain jackets in all the sizes and colors needed.

Several years ago, Firstgear offered their mesh jacket with a black, coated nylon waterproof outer jacket. It was a cheap solution to the problem, but I don't think they sold very many. Who wants to put a black rain jacket over your brightly colored main jacket, especially in the rain or on cold nights when visibility is important.

I am currently testing a Tour Master jacket that is mesh with an outer shell that zips on. I'm not sure what I think of it yet.

Take Care,

Mike Brown
Vancouver, WA
 

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In my opinion, the liner is inside so that it does not cover the manufacture's logos that are sewn on at various places. Yes, they could also sew on some logos on the liner but that would cost an extra 10¢.

Also, with a liner on the outside, it could theoretically flop around in the wind enough to distract the driver.
 

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For one thing, the shell is what meets the road in a drop. With the liner inside, you have a chance of having functional gear after going down.
If the waterproof liner is on the outside (like the rain gear I wear on top of my jacket), your gear is still functional if you hit the road.

Are you saying the purpose of the inside liner is to not shred the liner in case of a slide?

My answer to that is "who cares?".

My motoport has the liner on the inside, and it weighs a ton when it's wet; that's a big inconvenience (and it takes hours to dry as opposed to the rain jacket I wear on top of my teknic).

The other big problem with the inside liner is that once the jacket is soaked, you're pretty cold in there.
A good over-jacket is much better: it is lighter, dries quicker, and allows your jacket to stay dry, giving you lots of warm air around your body.
 

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Water Proof

I was looking for a water proof outer shell but I couldn't find a jacket for a reasonable price. I have a Frank Thomas jacket with a water proof liner that will have to do me for now. I did find a pair of pants that the outer shell is water proof and also have a quilted removable liner that I found at Cycle Gear. I also found a pair of boot covers there by Tour Master that fits over the toe and back under the ball of the foot with elastic strap/sturip under the arch of the foot and at the back of the heel. It is a tall upper with a zipper & velcro cover over the zipper about 3/4 length. May not keep me 100% dry but close enough.
 

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I agree that outer rain gear is ideal, but I am OK with the Motorport mesh kevlar with internal liners. I just keep the liners installed for around seven of our nine months of rain. They breathe well enough, and the outer mesh drip dries fast enough indoors (I am guessing that Duck has the stretch kevlar). I take the liners out for the summer, which is relatively dry, and just accept that I will get wet if it rains.
 

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We don't have the deep cold some other parts of the world get, but another vote for mesh with a cheap rain jacket over the top.

And no, I really don't care if I shred a $20 nylon rain jacket if I hit the road.

As several others pointed out, the big win is not carry around several kilos of air-con fluid (air chilled water) in the jacket when it does rain.

Pete
 

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The FirstGear Venture AT

Several years ago, Firstgear offered their mesh jacket with a black, coated nylon waterproof outer jacket. It was a cheap solution to the problem, but I don't think they sold very many. Who wants to put a black rain jacket over your brightly colored main jacket, especially in the rain or on cold nights when visibility is important.
I have this jacket. I thought the carry-on rainshell was a great idea. The Venture went on closeout very quickly, though, which reconciles with your suggestion that they probably didn't sell very well. The generous belly cut of these jackets departed from FirstGear's usual slim, European profile, also. This might have turned off a few long-time customers of the brand (it did for me, as I'm not fat, but the sheer functionality of the jacket is such that I can't convince myself to sell it.)

Note that the Venture was never sold in bright colors like Hi-Viz. Black/Silver and Sand/Silver is what's left; the (muted) Red/Silver is apparantly sold out.

FirstGear Venture AT Jacket :: MotorcycleGear.com
 
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