[V-Tom]

So is there a really good reason we don't all simply migrate over to V-Strom Riders International?
...

I have been a member of VSRI as long as I'm been a member here.

Even when VSRI was at is busiest it never had the degree of discussion that went on here. It was more like like a big library with static information. Like a library it was a good source of info when it was current but quickly got left behind and I found little reason to go there unless I wante specific information.

..Tom

 

[Max in Montreal]

well....incase we need it, vstrom.ca is mine...

 

[RCinNC]

I'm curious....how doe the "click" thing work, anyway? Brockie, you mentioned that the Trooper Arena was more active than before, but what does that actually mean? Does it mean that more and more people are going there, or does it mean that the usual group of guys who post there are just posting more often? To a company like VerticalScope that owns these sites purely to monetize its membership and sell advertising, does it make a difference to them as far as advertising goes if it's fifty new people posting in that forum or five people each posting ten times? My take would be that from an advertiing perspective, one guy posting a hundred times isn't as valuable as a hundred guys posting individually; after all, in the former scenario, it's still just one guy looking at whatever ads are blasted all over a page.

 

[Max in Montreal]

Advertising works in different ways...clicks, views...but the biggest thing is data. 1 click is worth a lot less than one click from a male...and that is less than a male that they know is 45 years old... the more they know about you the more they can charge. An account on facebook is worth way more than account on a forum. In my past experience the easiest way to recoup money spent for the site creation is with a donation button. If you feel the site gives you entertainment and information, and want to donate, go ahead, if not that is fine too, but in the end it all works out. This is the way Wikipedia works.
Years ago I used to work in the promotions department of a big TV station here in Montreal. When watching a 30 minute show, there was 8 minutes of commercials. Depending on the show, a 15 second slot cost x dollars, and the x depended on the number of viewers who were watching the show. Oprah in the afternoon was expensive, but the news cast at 6 PM was HUGE. It was so expensive they said the news started at 5:57 PM and ended at 6:01. this way they had 4 minutes more for commercials... 30 second Superbowl ads are in the millions... The sales men sell based on time slots, and if you want your add in a specific time slot you pay for it. You want it during Oprah at every break? you pay for it. Same person saw your ad 3 times was considered 3 people. One cool thing we used to do was separate ads that would mess one another, so if ford just played an add, there would not be a GM commercial soon after...maybe at the next break...

 

[Max in Montreal]

Some people say I talk a lot...

 

[RCinNC]

Yes, I understand demographics and target audiences, but that data usually gets assembled via things like Nielsen ratings or market research surveys, where they actually identify the age/race/sex/marital status/income/etc of the people that are taking part. All that data became codified through those marketing research efforts, so all advertising companies had access to it and didn't have to repeat the research themselves. But the difference between these actual market analysis surveys and the internet is that the people conducting those knew who was watching. They either had Nielsen families that the researchers already knew the sex/age/rage/income breakdowns, or they made questions about the biographical data of the respondents part of the overall survey. Sites like VerticalScope have no accurate idea what the demographics of their various fourms' memberships are, other than making broad assumptions that by and large on Stromtrooper, we're predominantly middle aged white guys.

With clicks on web pages, how do they determine who is looking at the ads? 1000 clicks on a page doesn't tell anyone anything about the person looking, or if whatever is being advertised is even being seen by anyone who'd even be remotely interested in it. Unless I'm wrong, "clicks" won't differentiate between one guy looking at a web page a hundred times and a hundred guys looking at it once (unless they're tracking the IP addresses of every person that visits the page). That's what brought up my question about activity on the Trooper Arena; if clicks have increased because a bunch of new guys are participating, that's one thing, but if they've increased because the regular posters are just madder than usual and are posting more often, that's something different. From an ad standpoint, more people seeing your ad is better that less people, but if clicks are the only thing being counted without reliable demographic data, how useful can that data actually be?

 

[Max in Montreal]

Its not clicks on a web page. Page views Is like putting a billboard on a highway, the busier the highway the more expensive the billboard. Then there is also pay per click, and this would be on how many people actually clicked on the ad and were directed to the advertisers website.
Some sites might have a contract that says I will keep your ad up until 1000 people click on it, and once they do you owe me 10$. The site then automatically would change the banner to another ad, or another company, and this one might be 2000 clicks. Page views and click throughs.

 

[realshelby]

Simple. VS charges in different ways. I pay a monthly fee on several sites just to be listed as a Vendor, allowing a business signature, etc. I also pay for banner ads on a couple sites. The amount of "clicks" does come into play here. You click on my banner ad and it takes you to my website. A good thing for me. My fee is based loosely on how many clicks.....but also how many times the banner ad shows up when someone opens that page. There are other advertisers using the same area with their banners so you are in effect paying for time/frequency. Page views are important, but they tend to be important to determine WHAT you are looking at ( think Bass Pro Shops wanting to know what you want to buy ) and, a very big deal, how LONG you are staying on that site! Clicks will always be higher on sites where page views ( and time on page ) are higher.....and this commands a higher advertising price.

Don't ever think Big Brother isn't watching everything you do on the web. There are cookies, bots, trackers, and things I don't know about tracking about every key you hit on the computer/phone. Knowing what the user at a certain IP address is looking at is PRICELESS to retail online sellers.

 

[realshelby]

@RCinNC
They don't necessarily care if you are a man, woman, child. Used to be there was a lot of research that went into consumer statistics so they could mail you flyers, coupons, and so on. Based on sex, age, education, income, and so on. Now they just target adds for products similar to what you have been looking at recently. All done with fancy algorithms that figure if you are looking at mens riding pants on Revzilla, you will also be interested in riding gear from Twisted Throttle.
There are programs you can run to help cut that down a lot. I run Ghostery and it really helps.

 

[RCinNC]

Its not clicks on a web page. Page views Is like putting a billboard on a highway, the busier the highway the more expensive the billboard. Then there is also pay per click, and this would be on how many people actually clicked on the ad and were directed to the advertisers website.
Some sites might have a contract that says I will keep your ad up until 1000 people click on it, and once they do you owe me 10$. The site then automatically would change the banner to another ad, or another company, and this one might be 2000 clicks. Page views and click throughs.

Thanks Max. That's illuminating, as far as how the ads are directed.

 

[RCinNC]

@RCinNC
They don't necessarily care if you are a man, woman, child. Used to be there was a lot of research that went into consumer statistics so they could mail you flyers, coupons, and so on. Based on sex, age, education, income, and so on. Now they just target adds for products similar to what you have been looking at recently. All done with fancy algorithms that figure if you are looking at mens riding pants on Revzilla, you will also be interested in riding gear from Twisted Throttle.
There are programs you can run to help cut that down a lot. I run Ghostery and it really helps.

I guess because I've always used some sort of adblock (right now it's UBlock Origin), I just don't see these ads so I must not be getting a clear picture of how pervasive it is. I also have Privacy Badger installed.

I'll be honest, I don't think I've ever clicked on an ad on a web page while I was on line.

 

[Max in Montreal]

Some use duckduckgo.com as their browser, check it out.

 

[Big B]

Some use duckduckgo.com as their browser, check it out.

Yup that's what I used.

 

[RCinNC]

Firefox with Privacy Badger works fine for me. Plus a VPN.

 

[BC Rider]

I am edging ever so close to leaving this forum for good, only to visit when I rarely need tech support. I've been here since 2005, knew and still know "as truly friends" the creator of this forum when it was 100% privately owned, but what it has become now since being owned by a big corporation........I'm not a fan. The Arena was my idea, and Spank before that was the original owners idea.....both worked well as they were 100% volunteer participation, and you never saw anything or participated unless you wanted to. We mods have been waiting patiently on the Admin panel and a solution to the Arena, hell I've asked for it to be deleted........yet it's still here. Do they care or don't really care, I honestly have no idea. I liked Spank/Arena option as a place where free speech was a bit more free, the off topic section before the Arena had many threads/posts which got reported due to breaking the rules, or things just at times naturally going in a different direction. The Arena before this software upgrade was a hidden gem IMHO, now it has become a place which is out in the open and some are not happy about it. Keep staying on VS, if they are getting member emails asking for refunds to premium memberships or losing renewals for such......well......money talks doesn't it?

The Trooper Arena may have been hidden but the attitude of people who engage there would bleed over into general threads I believe. Someone will put up info or a vid helpfull to the users of this site. Another member will start tearing into it, bringing up stuff that is not important, looking for an argument. Some members can't help themselves and interject political putdowns and snide remarks into threads. Why are they so wound up and wanting a pissing match. The Trooper Arena. It is like putting your septic field right next to your well. I don't come here very often any more.

 

[V-Tom]

The Trooper Arena may have been hidden but the attitude of people who engage there would bleed over into general threads I believe. Someone will put up info or a vid helpfull to the users of this site. Another member will start tearing into it, bringing up stuff that is not important, looking for an argument. Some members can't help themselves and interject political putdowns and snide remarks into threads. Why are they so wound up and wanting a pissing match. The Trooper Arena. It is like putting your septic field right next to your well. I don't come here very often any more.

That will get shut down very quickly and if you see it please report it so we can take action.

..Tom

 

[Stalky Tracker]

Some use duckduckgo.com as their browser, check it out.

Not to be picky but DuckDuckGo is a search engine that can be used in the various browsers.

 

[Brockie]

I use Firefox and replaced Google with DuckDuckGo search engine. I do not see the advertisements but wish that I could find a cure for that very annoying "Enable Push Notifications" pop-up.

Unshrouding the Trooper Arena definitely spiked its activity. Many people who had not commented there previously did so encouraging even more debate. That was very obvious to me even without data.
At least winter is mostly over for those northerners with cabin fever.

BCRider I would disagree with your septic field next to your well argument. I also got to know people much better there as normal best behaviour conventions were put aside. I objected to, and occasionally stopped, direct confrontation. My ethos was that you went there to debate a point - not to insult its giver.

 

[NVDucati]

I use Firefox and replaced Google with DuckDuckGo search engine. I do not see the advertisements but wish that I could find a cure for that very annoying "Enable Push Notifications" pop-up.

I, too use Firefox in private window mode. Another privacy search engine is https://www.startpage.com . Very strong privacy with all of google's results. I also have Adobe Flash set to ask permission each time. Remembering that when anything is free on the internet __ you are the product.

I also got to know people much better there as normal best behaviour conventions were put aside.

Funny you should say that. I never bothered to enter the Trooper area before. Then when it was "exposed" I started to peek in. Absolutely none of my original assumptions about our members, as regards to political divisions, broke.
The distinction between a "motorcyclist group" and a "biker gang" starts and ends way outside of the act of riding a two wheeler.

 

[Brockie]

I always make Adobe Flash as "ask me each time" and of course unclick the offer of an anti virus trial.
I will trial startpage.com as a search engine. DuckDuckGo is good as it has many one click options at hand to focus your search. It took no time at all to adapt from Google.