StromTrooper banner

21 - 40 of 90 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
7,019 Posts
I know formula 1 cars dabble with electric motor assist, but don't know if they use these electric motors to assist in power delivery, tire grip, etc....
F1 cars harvest energy through regenerative braking, as well as a generator on the turbo, presumably used to limit boost (as opposed to a wastegate), then use the stored energy (battery) to provide extra power at critical moments. Often the extra power is used to fend off an overtaking driver that is using the DRS (drag-reduction system) to gain a speed advantage. Adds tremendously to the cost and complexity of the car, as well as driver workload, and makes passing more difficult, not what they need, as well as reduces car reliability somewhat. Evidently the batteries are liquid cooled, and are used nearly to destruction, requiring replacement after each race.

They claim that, with the energy recovery, they achieve a net energy efficiency near 50%, about 20% higher than normal standalone IC engines. Not that F1 has any actual ecological cred, as they put their cars on jet airplanes and tranport them around the world. But they try to pretend that the fuel limitations are a sop to ecological pretensions.

One of the big attractions of electric motorcycles will be the extremely low maintenance. Pretty much limited to replacing tires and brake pads. Be interesting to see if they can stand up to repeated banzai acceleration tests. Some of the early Teslas could do a few runs, then things overheated and the fun was over until they cooled down. I understand the newer ones do better. Although, last I read, it is doubtful that they've made a full lap of the Nurburgring, to date, under full-power racing conditions, and that is about 13 miles. Electric vehicles can provide a lot of torque and power for short periods of time, but engineering the systems for continuous high-power output is more challenging.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
623 Posts
One of the big attractions of electric motorcycles will be the extremely low maintenance. Pretty much limited to replacing tires and brake pads. Be interesting to see if they can stand up to repeated banzai acceleration tests. Some of the early Teslas could do a few runs, then things overheated and the fun was over until they cooled down. I understand the newer ones do better. Although, last I read, it is doubtful that they've made a full lap of the Nurburgring, to date, under full-power racing conditions, and that is about 13 miles. Electric vehicles can provide a lot of torque and power for short periods of time, but engineering the systems for continuous high-power output is more challenging.
Cold is another battery weakness that needs be addressed. As temperature drops, motor efficiency rises. But the battery's capacity to convert stored energy to work energy decreases, and at a faster rate than motor efficiency rises.

We'll know they've got a handle on it when we are able to buy Li ion snowmobiles.
 

·
Administrator
Joined
·
5,386 Posts
I watched the video but it never said how long the battery will last.
A 2 hour ride followed by an 8 hour recharge? Let me know when you sort that out.
Until then they are just very fancy toys.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,352 Posts
I watched the video but it never said how long the battery will last.
A 2 hour ride followed by an 8 hour recharge? Let me know when you sort that out.
Until then they are just very fancy toys.
If electric ever becomes a mandated, we will need to get used to towing single wheel battery trailers.:mad:
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
2,796 Posts
I watched the video but it never said how long the battery will last.
A 2 hour ride followed by an 8 hour recharge? Let me know when you sort that out.
Until then they are just very fancy toys.
Which is what bikes are right now, for most of the people who own one.
I know lots of guys who have never ridden over 100 miles in a day.
E-bikes aren't going to fit every use-case for quite a while, but there are a bunch of them that they work for right now. Might not be you or me or most of the people on this forum, but we're not typical.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,721 Posts
Which is what bikes are right now, for most of the people who own one.
I know lots of guys who have never ridden over 100 miles in a day.
E-bikes aren't going to fit every use-case for quite a while, but there are a bunch of them that they work for right now. Might not be you or me or most of the people on this forum, but we're not typical.
Electric bikes are tied to urban areas and will be until a major battery tech breakthrough occurs. It would be cool to have one in the city though, zip to the office and plug it in.

Heck even Teslas aren't viable for travel away from urban areas to my way of thinking. Yea they've got a national network of charging stations but you will be sitting at one for almost an hour if you need a full charge.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
4,946 Posts
Batteries rarely are charged to 100% as it's slow and hard on the batteries. Teslas can charge to 30% - and go 75 miles in 5 minutes,

Kia’s first dedicated EV model, to be launched in 2021, will be a high-riding, crossover-like sedan. That’s old news from January. But now there are reports that it will use an ultra-fast 800-volt battery system that could bring 15-minute EV pit stops to the masses.

To date, the poster child for the 800-volt EV battery architecture has been the Porsche Taycan. But the Taycan sports car in its cheapest form starts around $105,000 and goes up to $187,000. GM said the GMC Hummer EV, a goliath of a vehicle, will also use an 800-volt system.

Putting the same architecture into a Kia model, even a relatively expensive halo EV changes things.

Porsche’s 800-volt system uses lighter, thinner wiring to charge at unprecedented speeds with less heat. The shift from the typical 400-volt systems to 800 volts cuts the current in half. The 200-mile Taycan has a peak charge of 270 kilowatts, which means a charge from 5% to 80% in about 20 minutes.

GM is saying that its 400- and 800V platforms can both add about 100 miles in 10 minutes.

A 300-mile Kia EV that charges in 20 minutes
Kia in January confirmed that the upcoming EV will have “around 300 miles” of range and offer a “sub-20-minute recharge time.” For this vision to become a common reality, we will need to see a lot more 350-kW fast-chargers get installed throughout the country. No EV today can charge at 350 kilowatts, but the emerging 800-volt systems can commonly hit 250-kW.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
4,946 Posts
EV motorcycles with long range are still a ways out but E-bikes are booming and effective. EV adoption will be driven by range and legislation as the cost of driving and maintenance is already well established.

Motorcycles are already cost effective in that regard - I can go 450 km on $10 of fuel and that's in Canada aand really it's a niche market.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
623 Posts
Batteries rarely are charged to 100% as it's slow and hard on the batteries. Teslas can charge to 30% - and go 75 miles in 5 minutes,


Can a Polaris 800v sled be far behind?
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
1,568 Posts
If electric ever becomes a mandated, we will need to get used to towing single wheel battery trailers.:mad:

No....no.....no. Just tow a gasoline-powered Generac on your trailer, and you can constantly charge it while on the fly. Gas up at any filling station.🤑
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,451 Posts
Yep, and still more efficient than burning the diesel directly. Generator sets run at a fixed speed where they are tuned to be most efficient. As a result they are significantly more efficient than the general purpose engines built for cars and trucks that need to be functional over a wide range of engine speeds.
These skids also provide functional remote infrastructure to extend the useful range of electric vehicles and can be deployed in minutes in places with no electrical grid connection. The diesel generator can also later be replaced with renewable energy generations (solar/wind etc) and batteries of some sort.
I know this is shared by a lot of people to try and debunk the usefulness of electric vehicles but it actually does the exact opposite and proves the infrastructure to support them can be rolled out far easier and faster than setting up remote fossil fuel depots.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
2,796 Posts
...I know this is shared by a lot of people to try and debunk the usefulness of electric vehicles but it actually does the exact opposite and proves the infrastructure to support them can be rolled out far easier and faster than setting up remote fossil fuel depots.
Yeah, this sort stuff just makes me shake my head. Basically the argument seems to be that because electric vehicle don't fill every need, for everyone, right now, they have no value and the whole concept is dumb. And they jump on any stop-gap measures needed in the short run to plug infrastructure holes as further "proof" that whole thing is a scam of some sort.

Major new technologies don't spring forth fully formed, as if from the brow of Zeus. There's always a period of experimentation, of trial and error, hiccups, sidetracks and setbacks. All that's normal, and exactly what we're seeing today with EVs.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
4,946 Posts
ICE industry circa 1890 and where ever did you get fuel....horses so much easier - fill em up at any meadow.
What Was the First Car in the World
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,352 Posts
ICE industry circa 1890 and where ever did you get fuel....horses so much easier - fill em up at any meadow.
I understand the point you are trying to make. But, in my opinion, you are really making a unintended point. Electric powered vehicles are fine. Battery powered e-vehicles are horrifying.
I think this battery approach is both rushed and lazy. Mother Earth will suffer exponentially less if we keep combustion going for another 15-20 years until one of the better, cleaner sources comes on line. I do not think that the E revolution is a scam. It is well intended and important. It is just short sighted and not completely thought out.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,451 Posts
I understand the point you are trying to make. But, in my opinion, you are really making a unintended point. Electric powered vehicles are fine. Battery powered e-vehicles are horrifying.
I think this battery approach is both rushed and lazy. Mother Earth will suffer exponentially less if we keep combustion going for another 15-20 years until one of the better, cleaner sources comes on line. I do not think that the E revolution is a scam. It is well intended and important. It is just short sighted and not completely thought out.
You just contradicted yourself.
What precisely do you consider an "electric powered vehicle" if not one that uses a battery as storage? Battery technology is advancing almost on a weekly basis, not just increasing capacity but reducing their environmental impact in terms of materials required AND extending their lifespan.

No matter what we do, there will still be ICE powered vehicles for the next twenty years.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,352 Posts
What precisely do you consider an "electric powered vehicle" if not one that uses a battery as storage?
Hydrogen Cell, chiefly. Compressed Air / Inverter is another.
 

·
Administrator
Joined
·
5,386 Posts
All credit to Jon Edwards, a retired engineer who developed this EV charging machine as a experimental idea and as a result of his frustration of not being able to conveniently drive his EV from Adelaide SA to Perth WA.

His proposal was that if 14 of these machines were established at the service stations every 200km along the featureless Nullabor Plain from Clare near Adelaide, to Perth, (some 2,575kms) that EV vehicles could then conveniently cross the Nullabor, proving that long distance travel by EV was a reality.

However, by his own testing, he was able to recharge 10 EV's in a stated 9 hours. That is a very good 54 minutes per vehicle - adding 12.6 hours to the nominal 27 hour journey. The full explanation, with Jon Edwards comments is here: The diesel generator behind the electric car charging point « JoNova

I am going to speculate that being required to stop for 54 minutes every 200kms (or even 400kms, if that range is possible) during a long journey will quickly become frustrating to most and that for the foreseeable future EV's will remain a convenient short trip vehicle - keeping in mind that one must also then own a second vehicle capable of conveniently completing those longer trips.

What is really needed is a way of generating electricity while the vehicle is on the road.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
4,946 Posts
JoNova....pardon my laughter. Guess she's still enjoying her fossil fuel masters payroll.

What is really needed is a way of generating electricity while the vehicle is on the road.
It's called a hybrid ...do keep up. :rolleyes:
 
21 - 40 of 90 Posts
Top