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Why don’t manufacturers LISTEN

An important part of improving your product is to listen to your customer’s feedback. Take criticism on the chin: LEARN from your mistakes.
So at the next QC meeting at Sukuki (or Honda or Yamaha or whoever) the product managers should be FORCED to listen to hours of feedback from forums like this one.
Just imagine for a moment if your new V-Strom came with Centrestand, switchable ABS, LED headlights, accessory under-seat fuse box, easily adjustable screen... items which could be added for 10% of the cost of aftermarket extras, the product would significantly out-perform the opposition
So Mr Suzuki......PAY ATTENTION.
Look Listen Learn!
I’d HAPPILY pay $300 more for a STANDARD bike with all these things already fitted, without having to order them as extras (for 3 times the cost) and more importantly having to wait another 4 weeks for their delivery!
Rant over.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

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All good points!

They are gonna be listening to me as I plan to ask at the upcoming bike trade show which knucklehead decided to remove the 4 way flasher switch on the 17 wee in America after every strom ever made up to this year had them.
 

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FORUM GODFATHER.....R.I.P. PAT
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It's economics. For one thing, more money can be made selling accessories than including them. Increasing the price of a bike due to adding accessories not everybody wants is also a negative influence. Traditionally, there are less expensive brands that put out bare bones bikes and more expensive brands that include more stuff. Suzuki is the former. Besides, a lot of motorcyclists like to accessorize their bikes to their personal tastes and have a bike that is not just like everybody else's.

There is also the situation of somebody turning off ABS and getting killed or injured while it is off. They or their family then sues Suzuki. There are a lot of variables in deciding what to include.

You want what you want and are adamant about it. Somebody else want's something different. You need to remember the somebody elses.
 

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All good points!

They are gonna be listening to me as I plan to ask at the upcoming bike trade show which knucklehead decided to remove the 4 way flasher switch on the 17 wee in America after every strom ever made up to this year had them.
You mean in the USA/Canada you don't have this button on the V-Strom 650 (2017)? :serious:
 

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They moved the 4 way flasher switch? Oh no, man. It's my favorite accessory.
That's it, no upgrade for me!
Actually it's what GW says. The engineers are tasked with making a product and the accountants decide how to make it profitable.
 

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An important part of improving your product is to listen to your customer’s feedback. Take criticism on the chin: LEARN from your mistakes.
So at the next QC meeting at Sukuki (or Honda or Yamaha or whoever) the product managers should be FORCED to listen to hours of feedback from forums like this one.
Just imagine for a moment if your new V-Strom came with Centrestand, switchable ABS, LED headlights, accessory under-seat fuse box, easily adjustable screen... items which could be added for 10% of the cost of aftermarket extras, the product would significantly out-perform the opposition
So Mr Suzuki......PAY ATTENTION.
Look Listen Learn!
I’d HAPPILY pay $300 more for a STANDARD bike with all these things already fitted, without having to order them as extras (for 3 times the cost) and more importantly having to wait another 4 weeks for their delivery!
Rant over.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I see you are in Palawan. I was in the Philippines earlier this year (Manila, Tarlac, Subic bay, Boracay). Do they offer the V-Strom there? I didn't see anything bigger than like a 350 during my two weeks there

And while I'd agree I'd love to see all those things, Suzuki has a tricky part to play in pleasing all of their clients. Some things have to be downgraded to keep cost down. However offering factory items like center stands, fuse boxes, hand guards, skid plates, heated grips, etc are easier for them to sell as accessories allows them to sell tailored bikes to their buyers. To that point, the aftermarket often offers better and/or cheaper options so the free market takes a lot of business from the manufacturers.
 

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I see you are in Palawan. I was in the Philippines earlier this year (Manila, Tarlac, Subic bay, Boracay). Do they offer the V-Strom there? I didn't see anything bigger than like a 350 during my two weeks there

And while I'd agree I'd love to see all those things, Suzuki has a tricky part to play in pleasing all of their clients. Some things have to be downgraded to keep cost down. However offering factory items like center stands, fuse boxes, hand guards, skid plates, heated grips, etc are easier for them to sell as accessories allows them to sell tailored bikes to their buyers. To that point, the aftermarket often offers better and/or cheaper options so the free market takes a lot of business from the manufacturers.
Don't forget who has an often bigger, and certainly more regularly heard, voice - the dealers. If you take away a dealer's ability to upsell high-profit accessories at the time of purchase, you take away a portion - however small - of a dealer's desire to sell the bike which is at a very thin margin. Especially in North America, where dealers often represent multiple competing brands, that dealer can recommend away from a fully kitted out (but more expensive) bike to a bare one - and sell all the accessories for a good margin.
 

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Don't forget who has an often bigger, and certainly more regularly heard, voice - the dealers. If you take away a dealer's ability to upsell high-profit accessories at the time of purchase, you take away a portion - however small - of a dealer's desire to sell the bike which is at a very thin margin. Especially in North America, where dealers often represent multiple competing brands, that dealer can recommend away from a fully kitted out (but more expensive) bike to a bare one - and sell all the accessories for a good margin.
I worked at a Yamaha shop years ago and when the owner would tell us of which division of the shop the profits were the highest, it was always, accessories.
 

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I agree to a point, I do feel that a model designated "Adventure or XT" should truly be the flagship models. Suzuki would still sell the cheaper versions by a long shot, but yeah I would gladly pay for more right up front over buying farkles later.
 

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Not motorcycle related, but sheds light in the manufacturer's mind

My son has a newer F-150 XLT (middle of the pack as far as options) It has tilt steering, but to get telescoping steering, you need to go up in trim level $$$$.

Basically what Ford did was install an adjustment block that will do both, tilt and telescope, but the telescope feature is defeated on the XLT. They could offer a telescoping column in the cheaper models at no or even lower cost but they don't (they have to maintain two different sliding block parts instead of one). This forces you go up in trim level and $$$ if you want telescoping too. So the current hack is to modify the sliding block so it performs both functions. Simple and safe to do. Just shows how they manipulate the market to maximize profits.
 

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Even if they included a full farkle package as OEM equipment, folks would find a reason to remove, alter, or replace what comes on the bike. Then complain about having to pay for what OEM provides.
Based on situation similarity, look at the muffler that comes with the bike. They provide one, but there are a bunch of folks who don't like it.
Center stand : no good for serious off road, even on a Wee. I took it off.
ABS switch : I just leave it off anyway, they need to offer a modle with and a model without ABS
LED Lights : Bulb burned up so I replaced them with brand X
Accessory Fuse box : Not enough amps, too many switch circuits, not enough switched circuits...
Easily adjustable screen : don't like the looks, blocks too much wind, doesn't block enough wind, not interchangeable with year X. I added lowers and a clip on deflector...

I'd rather keep the initial price low and buy the pieces I want. In fact I almost opted for the more basic white one, but wanted the yellow that only came as the XT model.

Manufacturers can't win nowadays!
 

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An important part of improving your product is to listen to your customer’s feedback. Take criticism on the chin: LEARN from your mistakes.
So at the next QC meeting at Sukuki (or Honda or Yamaha or whoever) the product managers should be FORCED to listen to hours of feedback from forums like this one.
Just imagine for a moment if your new V-Strom came with Centrestand, switchable ABS, LED headlights, accessory under-seat fuse box, easily adjustable screen... items which could be added for 10% of the cost of aftermarket extras, the product would significantly out-perform the opposition
So Mr Suzuki......PAY ATTENTION.
Look Listen Learn!
I’d HAPPILY pay $300 more for a STANDARD bike with all these things already fitted, without having to order them as extras (for 3 times the cost) and more importantly having to wait another 4 weeks for their delivery!
Rant over.
...
A few thoughts:

QC to me means "Quality Control". Your rant is about Marketing, not quality.

These things might be important to you but to many others they simply don't matter.

It might make sense to (as BigB mentions) offer an XT version that is fully decked out but for the most part they aren't really a big deal.

I had the centerstand mounted before delivery and wouldn't have one without it but there are other riders that simply don't want a centerstand of for some reason want an aftermarket centerstand.

I had the opportunity to buy a new DL1000 that had the factory luggage and a number of other things like luggage for a minor price increase compared to the naked one I got. For me it wasn't even barely desirable. I did not want the factory luggage at all, I didn't want the plastic engine "guard". I forget the other stuff it had but it didn't matter to me.

I am not interested in defeating ABS although I understand there are a number of incredibly talented riders out there that don't wish to have it on when off-road but suspect for the majoprity of Strom Buyers that simply doesn't matter.

Yes I put fuseblock on all my Stroms and also have mounted it on my Wife's 2016 Triumph Tiger 800 XRX Low. It would be nice if there was a factory kit or designated spots to wire in these type of accessorizes but in the grand scheme of things a minor annoyance.

And the screen on my 2015 DL1000 does adjust easily from stock and more so since I added the Madstad Bracket which has totally and completely cured any issues I had with buffeting.

On the other hand I really like that Suzuki has decided to use powerful MONOBLOCK brakes on the front of my bike, good quality adjustable suspension, and very effective traction control which is very easy to change settings.

I would love to have factory Cruise Control whether standard or as an option but it isn't a show stopper for me.

Even though the truth is that the perception(?) of Stroms and Suzuki is that they are low end products the fundamentals are great on our bikes.

Ultimately there is no right or wrong and I am sure that if Suzuki and the dealers thought there was money to be made offering bikes just the way you like I suspect they would do so.

..Tom
 

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My 2009 CBF1000 does not have flashers much to my annoyance.
 

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Personally I like having a blank slate to work with. I detest the factory panniers on the DL. Fortunately I was able to get a bike w/o them and then buy aftermarket pannier racks and use the cases I prefer. This is but one example. Handlebars, grips, tires, seat, windscreen, pegs, peg elevation, suspension, lighting etc. are all subjective things.
 

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Some listen...

2010-2013 Super Ten (Gen 1)
clutch vibration (light chudder)
cam chain tensioner bleeds down with age
no 4 way flashers
steel handle bars, 1 piece top clamp vibrate
basic instrument package
mediocre engine mapping
93 hp
incandescent flashers
standard suspension
cold grips
odd empty space under headlights
RBW throttle
steel kickstand
mirrors caused buffeting
single position windshield
handle bars low and forward for some

2014-2018 Super Ten (Gen 2)
brand new clutch design, smooth
redesigned cam chain tensioner, works well
added 4 way flashers
rubber mounted risers, aluminum handle bars
all digital instruments with user configurable trip computer
almost perfect mapping
100 hp
LED flashers
standard and electronically adjustable suspension
heated grips
spoiler under headlights
RBW throttle with cruise control
aluminum kickstand
stream lined mirrors
adjustable windshield, larger too
bars raised and moved back

A whole lot of Tenere owner's went nuts selling 1 and 2 year old bikes and buying brand new ones. MSRP went up but not a lot.

The DL series is a fine bike but Suzuki is missing some sales.
 

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It is not as cheap or easy as you might think to change how a windshield adjusts, or adding a skid plate, and so on. Change one thing and many others are effected. It is all a compromise unless it is an all new ground up design.

I for one tend to enjoy adding things to a new bike, but do wish more though was put into how owners might changes bikes. A great example is the piss-poor mounting system for the 2012-2016 DL 650 windshield. If that were reinforced instead of some rubber nuts in a plastic cowl it would be so much better!

There is nothing really wrong with the current new generation of DL 650 and 1000. But they have some shortcomings when compared to market leaders. To make these bikes compete more directly with what buyers are willing to pay for, you just cannot "refresh" these bikes. They would need a complete redesign. That is expensive. Suzuki isn't doing all that well financially, and committing the resources for an all new bike is a BIG decision. So do you offer the lower priced refreshed bike and hope to make enough sales to justify them, or jump in and build a competitor to what actually sells in volume in the Adventure category?
 

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They moved the 4 way flasher switch? Oh no, man. It's my favorite accessory.
That's it, no upgrade for me!
Actually it's what GW says. The engineers are tasked with making a product and the accountants decide how to make it profitable.

There is absolutly no way this keeps cost down....they had the existing switch so they had to make a new one without the switch...that costs MORE!!!. This was an engineering failure nothing to do with beancounters imho.
 

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I see you're an engineer. That explains your perspective. Product engineers are often at odds with their company's marketing and accounting departments. They just like to "engineer" stuff without much regard for whether it makes economic sense for the company. Could Suzuki make the product better or include more features? Of course. But successful products are rarely about being the "best" or the most feature-packed and more about finding the right balance of price and features for their target customer. The fact that you actually bought one of their motorcycles without all the features you claim to want indicates that Suzuki was successful in finding the right balance. Suzuki DOES listen--The loudest message they hear from us
V-Strom types is that we're a cheap bunch!

:wink2:
 

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Cheap, like the guys that use sailboats. They move with the wind for free and reportedly expect everything else to be free too!
 
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