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Small steps at a time towards the hydrogen economy ....and reversible :unsure:(y)

April 21, 2020Source OE/Idaho National LaboratorySummary:Recently, researchers developed a new electrode material for an electrochemical cell that can efficiently convert excess electricity and water into hydrogen. When demand for electricity increases, the electrochemical cell is reversible, converting hydrogen back into electricity for the grid. The hydrogen could also be used as fuel for heat, vehicles or other applications.Share:
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While energy sources such as wind and solar are great at producing emissions-free electricity, they depend on the sun and the wind, so supply doesn't always meet the demand. Likewise, nuclear power plants operate more efficiently at maximum capacity so that electricity generation can't be easily ramped up or down to match demand.
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For decades, energy researchers have tried to solve one big challenge: How do you store excess electricity so it can be released back onto the grid when it's needed?
Recently, researchers at Idaho National Laboratory helped answer that challenge by developing a new electrode material for an electrochemical cell that can efficiently convert excess electricity and water into hydrogen. When demand for electricity increases, the electrochemical cell is reversible, converting hydrogen back into electricity for the grid. The hydrogen could also be used as fuel for heat, vehicles or other applications.
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Not to get too far afield, but one of the unanswered questions is whether the infection can actually be transmitted on a surface, rather than face-to-face. Yeah, the bugs can live there, but can they infect? And they are making strides on self-disinfecting surfaces. More likely the car will have a camera that scans you for fever or other sickness indications and refuses to unlock the doors. Be a bummer if it detects that you are inebriated to the point of refunding and refuses to give you a ride, just like your former best mates.

That question is answered and Covid-19 can exist on some surfaces for days and be viable. The virus is most stable on plastics and stainless steel and be viable up to 72 hours. Cardboard 24 hours, copper 3 hours. Test results indicate that aerosol and fomite transmission of COVID-19 are plausible, as the virus can remain viable and infectious in aerosols for multiple hours and on surfaces up to days. Which is why washing hands frequently makes sense as well as limiting going to the store for essential needs only. The virus needs a host, when it can't find one it dies. Our duty is to hammer this virus down and once done we can dance again (or ride and travel to our hearts content).
 

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Nina Chestney, Kate Abnett
8 MIN READ
  • LONDON (Reuters) - Hydrogen has long been touted as a clean alternative to fossil fuels. Now, as major economies prepare green investments to kickstart growth, advocates spy a golden chance to drag the niche energy into the mainstream of a post-pandemic world.
 

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:rolleyes:
 
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I certainly could save $ with an electric car for local, but I still need my truck, and a long distance vehicle..... my Silverado does all 3 ok, it gets 18-20 mpg, (15-16 w trailer) has a 400 mile range,

but a lectric car is a big $$$$$$ investment, instead I bought a K-Pipe, $1k used, get 100 mpg a scooter would be even better, 100mpg + a bunch of storage
 

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We have a similar issue in Australia ...a PHEV would be ideal but it's too much money over the ICE version especially with much lower fuel costs lately. It's only a 5 km one way commute plus retirement is coming up. Non PHEV is useless but partner wants/needs a newer/smaller vehicle than the HiLux but high seating ...something like a Rogue ...maybe a tad smaller.
Even when I get there I have the KLR for local trips and we can always rent something for road trips ( which we have done for the last few road trips in North America and Europe....usually a small SUV ...diesel in Europe which is much less expensive.

A pure EV would work fine but not enough choice yet and too expensive. So we wait. ☕
 

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Too bad Musk has a history of over-promising and under-delivering. But almost inevitable that battery developments will lead to cost parity at some point. Wouldn't be surprised to see a guaranteed-buyback-price at the end of car life so the batteries can go on to be powerwalls, not reducing the upfront coast, but lowering significantly the total cost of ownership. Still unanswered is the need for vastly expanded generation capacity needed to charge them. Although solar is making similar strides in cost reduction. As is fuel-cell technology. So it will all be a race to the market. Pretty clear that the IC car is on the way out, one way or another.
 

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is the need for vastly expanded generation capacity needed to charge them
That is not a requirement

Funny Musk seems to have delivered to the great dismay of the short sellers.
 
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...Funny Musk seems to have delivered to the great dismay of the short sellers.
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I'm not a fan of the guy as a person, but what he's done as an entrepreneur is beyond astonishing. Starting a car company from scratch in this day and age is about the hardest thing you can do in business. Vast amounts of capital required, huge infrastructure to be built, enormous technical challenges, a global hodgepodge of complex regulations to be complied with...on and on.
To go from nothing to the 2nd most valuable automaker in the world in 16 years...it's just unimaginable.
 

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That is not a requirement
Probably is. Convert the amount of energy in the amount of fuel petroleum burned, divide by two, as a rough estimate, and that's about how much more electricity we'll need. No one seems to think we have anywhere near that amount of excess capacity presently. It will help that some charging can be done off-peak, using capacity that is presently not in demand. But we'll still need a whole bunch more power than what we presently generate.
 

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Probably is. Convert the amount of energy in the amount of fuel petroleum burned, divide by two, as a rough estimate, and that's about how much more electricity we'll need. No one seems to think we have anywhere near that amount of excess capacity presently. It will help that some charging can be done off-peak, using capacity that is presently not in demand. But we'll still need a whole bunch more power than what we presently generate.
Yes, but not all at once. Electric car adoption isn't going to turn from a trickle to a tsunami overnight. It will be long road. And it will, to some extent, self-regulate using normal supply/demand price signals..
 

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Problem is the lead time on building generating capacity. I suspect within the next 2 to 3 years that e-cars will become quite a bit more popular. Very possibly within 5 years they will be the majority of new cars sold. Still a big 'tail' of IC vehicles, of course, but the demand will ramp up fairly steeply. Perhaps in roughly the same period home solar and storage will be making big gains as well. Pretty good chance the first adopters on e-cars will also be buying in to solar. Estimates are around 35 kWh per gallon of gas, and we burn more than 300 million gallons PER DAY. That's a lot of power.
 

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Things change ...


Renewables are in fst growth mode, coal is dead, there is lots of natural gas and small nukes by 2025.
 

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Definitely a 'horses for courses' situation. A cousin recently bought a Leaf, for the express purpose of driving to and from her cabin, about 45 miles from her home. Easily attainable on a charge. She's been making the trip almost every day, and put almost 4000 miles on it in the first 2 months. They have other cars, so road trips won't be taken in the Leaf. Obviously the ecological benefit plays a part for her, as she can drive more, pretty guilt free (she pays a surcharge for 'green' power). Hauls her and her husband and their two large dogs in relative comfort. On a passenger-mile basis, quite economical. Obviously, with oil prices depressed, tougher to make the numbers work out, but nothing to say that we may not see prices skyrocket as supplies dry up due to low deamnd. Power prices, on the other hand, tend to stay pretty stable. Especially if you are making it yourself. Saw that Tesla, quietly, has made available 2-way charging on their cars, allowing the car bettery to be used as a reservoir (and supply) for the home power system. Kind of a shame I live in an old neighborhood with tall trees. Tends to limit the options for solar.
 
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