StromTrooper banner
1 - 20 of 52 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,702 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
My recollection is that most of the electrical problems are with the VEE's

SO I am asking if Wees have experienced stator burn out or burn out together with R/R

RandyO nicely supplied 2 burnt stator both of which had failed near the top where the exterior connections are made.

I have a number of scenarios in my mine. The only one farkle connected is that the increased load does allow less power to be shunted through the scr's so THEY run cooler. However the additional load I believe drags down the voltage in the stator coils. Lowered voltage and increased load should result in higher temperatures in the stator and possible insulation failure.

Note: Stators are "potted" with a thin epoxy coating like paint.
 

·
FORUM GODFATHER.....R.I.P. PAT
Joined
·
38,103 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
72 Posts
Funny you should bring this up. That happened to my riding partner's wee at about 50,000 kilometers during the summer. The only electrical add-on he has are heated grips. He obviously doesn't turn them on in the summer, but maybe the damage got started during the winter when he used them.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
8,025 Posts
The only electrical add-on he has are heated grips. He obviously doesn't turn them on in the summer
I use mine in the summer. They're a blessing for rainy days and arthritic hands.

Still, they don't draw nearly enough power to overload the bike's electrical system. Look elsewhere for the cause of failure.
 

·
FORUM GODFATHER.....R.I.P. PAT
Joined
·
38,103 Posts
Running without accessories is harder on a permanent magnet system. The output is always on full and anything not used is converted to heat.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3 Posts
i just lost the charging system on my 08 650, i havent had the time to dig into it yet, but i have less than 13 volts and no change when i rev the bike up, i have 87000 miles on an 08 so im not to unhappy, and i have a gps and gerbing jacket as the only add on's, my question is, if the stator is bad, should i go ahead and replace th R/R since i have the mileage that i have or just go with it if it test okay
thanks
 

·
FORUM GODFATHER.....R.I.P. PAT
Joined
·
38,103 Posts
Whether to replace a R/R that tests okay is a personal choice. I would go with a series replacement rather than OEM if making that choice as an OEM would almost certainly make no difference.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,702 Posts
Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Where I am at with all this.

First we must disabuse ourselves of the normal electrical notions. We USA citizens are used to a virtual infinite amount of power at a fixed voltage. Only in Ossining NY did the lights use to dim when justice was served but I digress.

ALL parts of this electrical system are inter related in actually a some what delicate balance.

The stator need sufficient turns to produce minimal charging at idle. This means the size and load carrying capacity of the stator wires is somewhat less than you would want.

The R/R does reduce the voltage into the bike as very spikey 12+V DC and counts that the battery will act as a great calming entity to smooth out the DC into nice smooth DC. Th Excess voltage/power is shunted into the bikes ground.

The battery as above is counted on to both smooth and provide the power when ever the charging system is not doing nice DC.

When/if we load up the electrical system the R/R is happier as less power is being shunted and thus less heat is generated.

However I believe that when the R/R is passing more wattage through to the bikes wiring it significantly reduces the voltage in the stator winding. Now the windings have to carry more amps at a lower voltage. This results in the windings running hotter up to the point to thermally degrade the insulation. Additionally a poor battery is also a load on the system as it acts like a big resistor using more power like an additional accessory.

I only have 2 examples (thanks Randyo) but both show the winding burned where they are connected to the outside wiring. This to me indicates the connections and the coil where the load is greatest is what gives out.

All of the components are inter related and when one fails it easilly causes a cascade failure in the others. SO fresh battery. Clean well maintained connections will make more reliability.

However the age ,heat cycles, etc will cause these components to fail.

I thought about trying to rewind a stator. The coils are closed together so it would be more difficult than I first imagined. My idea would be to go UP to the next bigger gauge wire. It should run cooler and provide adequate plus power at running speeds. It might NOT provide charge level power at idle. I however rarely sit for extended periods at idle speeds. If luck was with me than the reduced resistance at the coils might actually make more power available to the bikes system.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
22 Posts
How much load doe sthis ystem tolerate?

:?: - :bom_huh2: This subject is something I am trying to better understand.
I have an '11 Wee at about 2600 mi now. I just noticed a high pitched hi/lo "whirling" (for lack of a better description) that seems related to electrical load. I know this because it is affected by turn signal (on/off) cycling, or when hi beams are on it increases somewhat. When turn signal on, I also notice a slight hi/lo dimming of the headlights, not much - but visible.
Now in the past week I have added driving lights (55w) powered via a relay from the battery, and when these are on, also the "whirling" increases. And of course, as I add loads like turn signal, it adds to that sound.
My concerns:
> What is that whirling? Is just an (acceptably) overloaded system or is something going bad?
> If it is an overload, why would this be happening without any accessories? (before adding the driving lights).
> The only things I have added are a power 12v supply (cig lighter plug), but this all happens with nothing plugged in; and a "backoff" for brake and turn signals. I changed the tail/brake bulbs to LED for a small amount of compensation.
> How much spare room is there on this stator capacity for adding accessories?
As I understood it when reading about the '11, I believe they increased the capacity of the year. Is that correct?

I would have though that heated grips and clothing would be more of a drain in a system than lights, a backoff, or other similar accessories.
How is it that some owners can add lights and other things like these? How much can these systems be taxed? I see many of these bikes with many more accessories that mine.
Any feedback on this subject would be greatly appreciated before I go to far on adding things.
Thank you!
Jaime
(sunnyorlando)
 

·
FORUM GODFATHER.....R.I.P. PAT
Joined
·
38,103 Posts
Two 55W driving lights take much of the 125-150W overhead available. You may be hearing the electric fuel pump. Most people find LED lights more suited to the limited power available.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
22 Posts
Thanks - It's not the lights since it was happening before the lights were installed. I can lower them to 35w lights, but it happens even when they are off.
As to the pump sound, it's not that, there is a difference in sound between this "whirling" or very fast "chirping" ( another possible description). I would describe the pump sound more as a "whine" I guess.
So these stators only have that little overhead available? How do others get away with some many other electrical accessories and lights?

On the lights, I looked at LEDs, but couldn't really determine which are really more effective - I don't want them just for looks, I want additional visibility - see and be seen. Since I am familiar with may other halogen types, I went with those.

Jaime
sunnyorlando
 

·
FORUM GODFATHER.....R.I.P. PAT
Joined
·
38,103 Posts
A mechanic's stethoscope may help pinpoint the noise. Others don't get away with anything. The output is what it is. Careful choice of electrical accessories and monitoring a voltmeter are required. HID headlights, LEDs in other places, keeping heated gear tight to the body with insulating garments outside and turning off one headlight are typical methods to conserve power.
 

·
FORUM GODFATHER.....R.I.P. PAT
Joined
·
38,103 Posts
A lot of energy goes into heat with halogen lights. Check the specs on electrical devices for how many watts or amps they use. If energy is used to create heat or move weight (do work), the need will be high. Incandescent lights, heated gear and motors are the big draws. Get a voltmeter to check the staus of the electrical system while riding. You are guessing about the noise and a voltmeter reading is the way to check for sure. I'm sure you already posted this question. Once is enough.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
22 Posts
Thanks greywolf- I appreciate your feedback - I did not post twice purposely, not sure why that happened. The duplicate has been deleted...

I'm not guessing about the pump, I'm fairly sure about it. The pump is to the rear of the tank (as I'm sure you know), and the sound is emanating from the forward part of the bike.

Do you know where the voltage regulator is on these?

What sort of on board voltmeter or combo meter do you recommend?

Thanks
Jaime
 

·
FORUM GODFATHER.....R.I.P. PAT
Joined
·
38,103 Posts
I meant you need a voltmeter to tell what is going on instead of the sound. The regulator/rectifier is peeking out from the back of the right side cowling. It's the block with cooling fins in my picture but mine is not stock so will look a little different. I don't have a favorite voltmeter. There are many available.

 

·
Registered
Joined
·
22 Posts
OK, Thanks - I thought you meant like an on-board voltmeter like some have on the bike, for continuous monitoring while riding. I have a couple of handheld voltmeters, I don't need a recommendation on that.
Now - looking at your picture, that's what I thought was my regulator, and that is where the noise is coming from - I dont need stethoscope to verify that one.
As to the voltmeter use to check this problem, how would I use it other than to check voltage? What are you thinking of? I know I am seeing between 11 ~ 12.5v to 13v just about anywhere can check, with a fluctuation as accessories go on/off. That does not tell me load though. And it does not tell where the issue is.
If I turn everything off except what is on from the factory when the bike is running, the sound is there, from the regulator. Yet I wonder what could cause this to go bad in such short time. I say go bad, because otherwise would not be making any noise. I dont know of an IC that makes noise unless a capacitor or relay is going bad...
I can just hear the answer on this trip to the dealer - "You installed something so the warranty does not cover it"
Jaime
 

·
FORUM GODFATHER.....R.I.P. PAT
Joined
·
38,103 Posts
I did mean an on board voltmeter. 12.6-12.8V is maintaining. Less is discharging the battery and more is charging the battery. A dealer can't do a blanket denial of warranty. The Magnuson-Moss warranty act prohibits that. A dealer would have to show an added item caused the problem. Yours is the first report I've seen of a noisy regulator/rectifier.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
22 Posts
what was the actual failure, short cause of burnt insulation ?
There is no failure at the moment. It's just that I hear that noise, like a capacitor - hi pitch.
My concern is the early failure before even installing anything major.
Lookingf on line today, I found a company that makes stators for tgis bike. They tested at 350W capacity. I'd like to get feedback on stator upgrades if anyone has done this.

This one>> Electrosport ESG842

Thanks!
 
1 - 20 of 52 Posts
Top