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Discussion Starter #1
Took my Wee out for my longest ride so far. Rode the hills where I live and a couple of times, at the end of a fairly long 3 or 4 mile downhill, the motor died when I pulled up to a stop sign. Started right back up so not a big problem but wondered if anyone could tell me a possible cause. Otherwise, she ran great. Thanks.
 

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Took my Wee out for my longest ride so far. Rode the hills where I live and a couple of times, at the end of a fairly long 3 or 4 mile downhill, the motor died when I pulled up to a stop sign. Started right back up so not a big problem but wondered if anyone could tell me a possible cause. Otherwise, she ran great. Thanks.
How cold was it outside, and did you have to baby the throttle when it re-started? What year Wee?
 

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It was cool and it started normally. I recently installed a gear indicator thing, I wonder if that could have anything to do with it. It ran fine other than the two stalls.
 

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Long ride means the engine was hot. It's a perfect fit for a TPS issue.
 

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Greywolf,

I've been wondering if these problems that have periodically been posted could be due to the ISC valve and not the TPS? When it happens to me, there is nothing that is going to keep the bike running but me working the throttle to bounce the revs up over 2K rpms (not easy to do when you're trying to hold the front brake while stopped uphill!). It's running fine as long as you keep the rev's up.

When it does die, it seems to take a lot of throttle angle to keep the fire down below (i.e.: feels a WHOLE LOT like running out of fuel on a carbureted bike - more twist, no more rev's - lean). Then it clears, and all is well again. If it is not the ISC, then maybe the data from the IAP or IAT sensors is acting up. I don't know, I'm grasping here...:confused:
 

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There are a lot of inputs involved. The ISC sets the idle speed automatically and I have yet to see a problem attributable to the ISC. If a TPS adjustment or other input gets the preset idle speed somewhere besides 1300rpm, there is a procedure to reset it.

1) Turn the ignition switch to the OFF position.
2) Remove the seat.
3) Put the bike in dealer mode. FAQ: Dealer Mode & FI Error Codes
4) Turn the ignition switch to the ON position.
5) Turn the ignition switch to the OFF position.
6) Then, wait more than 5 seconds.
The ISC valve automatically is set at the PRE-SET position.
7) Take the bike out of dealer mode.

I have adjusted the TPS on my bike and that changes the idle speed so a TPS problem will affect the idle. I have seen no reports of problems with the other sensors but a number of reports of TPS problems.
 

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A couple of questions for Rhafe. How many miles on your bike? Stock clutch lever and the clutch switch is working normally? If you don't know about the switch, try this: Kickstand up, in gear, key on, kill switch to run, clutch out (lever free) will the starter work? In gear the starter should only work with the clutch in.

When I attended Suzuki's Advanced SDS (Suzuki diagnostic system) training, it was mentioned that some aftermarket clutch levers had caused problems on long deaccell situations. Some of the levers don't hit the clutch switch right. What they think is happening is that the monitoring process in the ECU (Engine Control Unit or "black box") thinks the clutch is pulled in and the throttle is closed. In that circumstance, the ECU should be able to open or close the ISC (Idle Speed Controller) to maintain the idle at a preprogrammed (and unchangeable) rpm. Since the clutch is really not pulled in and the engine is being held at a higher rpm by the coasting bike, after a certain number of seconds, the ECU decides that the ISC must be faulty. On the GSXRs and Hyabusa's that more often get aftermarket levers, I think this problem was setting a FI light on and an error code in the ECU memory. So if you didn't see an FI light, this *may* not be your problem.

The gear position indicator you installed might be an issue, especially if it's generic and not already known to be a trouble free installation on a Suzuki fuel injected bike. If it's one that you program using only an rpm pickup and a speed pickup, you're likely ok. If it connects to the factory gear position switch, now you're snooping around trouble. If you can easily disconnect it, do so and see what happens for a few rides.

Graywolf mentioned the TPS as a possible suspect. In dealer mode, there is a indicator on your meter than show's roughly how the TPS is set. With the bike up to operating temp and at a steady idle, the tps adjustment mark should be on the center line of 3. Barely (I mean BARELY) raise the throttle and you should see it move up to the upper mark. Sometimes, you can try to close the throttle further than it does on it's own and see the lower mark. If your's consistently sets on the middle mark after you blip the throttle, the TPS is *probably* ok. On the laptop diagnostic system, the dealer can watch for smooth operation of the TPS as the throttle is moved through it's range. If you're handy with a multimeter, I can get the pinout of the connector for you so you can check it that way yourself. I don't think we've seen any fail on any of the Suzuki street bikes yet but we've had a couple of Yamaha ones that were a problem from corrosion. At the advanced SDS course I went to, they were saying that they typically they only see an issue with high mileage on them. The lines on the meter are a rough way to set the TPS that's usually good enough. Using SDS it can be set a little more precisely but the difference isn't likely to be your fix.

If I discuss a problem like with my service rep, one of the first things he would ask is "have the throttle bodies been correctly synchronized using the air bleed screws?" They are really big on that but we've never found that to cause anything other than a rough idle or slight roughness at steady partial throttle. Still, if happened to be far off it might contribute to your symptom.

Is there any possibility that you bumped the kick stand at when you stopped. I can do that on my DRZ400S with my heel if I'm standing on the pegs and kill the engine briefly. Not likely the problem but check it out. If there's a place on your stand where your boot has rubbed the paint off other than where you purposely push it down, start being suspicious.

I'm not positive, but nearly so that on all of the Suzukis that have an ISC, the idle speed is not adjustable. Using Suzuki's diagnostic system on a laptop, you can temporarily raise or lower the ISC just to see if it's functioning. But as soon as you disconnect the laptop, the ISC system attempts to go back to the preprogrammed rpm. If it can't get close enough to it, an error is generated. Looking at the SDS software implies that it can be changed but only during diagnostics.

There has been an issue like this on a very small number of Roadliners and Stratoliners. It is often very intermittent on them too and usually happens at the end of a long deaccel. It's been found that if the air bleed screws are set so that the ISC is operating near wide open to maintain idle, that in some conditions it can't go high enough and the engine dies. The fix is to adjust the air bleed screws out further than normal (but still in synchronization) so that the ISC is normally operating closer to the middle of it's range. That's an unofficial fix but it has worked.

Did you remember to pull the clutch in when you stopped? Kidding

Before anyone asks about getting the SDS system for use at home, I think it's about $800 for the USB interface box and software.
 

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The SDS system is not sold to individuals. The HealTech OBD tool is available from Blue Monkey Motorsports (Formerly Cal-Sportbike) ::: HealTech Electronics, Speedo Healer, Pipercross air filters, Galfer, GIPro, X-TRE, OBD Tool, FI Tuner Pro

idle dies on hot engine -restarts ok - do i have another case of TPS issue is a good thread on the TPS issue. Getting the bar to rise at about 2500rpm seems to work best. If an adjustment doesn't do it, replace the TPS. It really has fixed the problem for a number of bikes, especially 2007-2009 Wees.

Aftermarket clutch levers are misidentified. The clutch switch changed in 2009 but lever manufacturers didn't notice until 2011. Owners of 2009 and later Wees need the 2011 levers. Otherwise, the bike won't idle right and the starter will crank with the clutch disengaged. TBS bleed screw adjustments on 2007 and later Wees only have a marked affect at idle and under 3000rpm.
 

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There has been an issue like this on a very small number of Roadliners and Stratoliners. It is often very intermittent on them too and usually happens at the end of a long deaccel. It's been found that if the air bleed screws are set so that the ISC is operating near wide open to maintain idle, that in some conditions it can't go high enough and the engine dies. The fix is to adjust the air bleed screws out further than normal (but still in synchronization) so that the ISC is normally operating closer to the middle of it's range. That's an unofficial fix but it has worked.
Not to butt-in any further into the conversation :mrgreen:, but this is good stuff, Mark. In my case, the bike stalls like clockwork on mornings when it is below 30F outside, one bar on the temperature screen, and at a stop sign at the top of a certain hill. Yes, I have spent some time playing with the ISC valve adjustment in the past, but I'm pretty certain the air screw settings are very close to factory.

It would seem that this situation is the opposite of a long down hill decel, due to my needing a lot of throttle to climb the hill, then chopping it suddenly at the top. In both cases, do you think the ISC needs to be adjusted (via air screws) to have more impact at full open?
 

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Discussion Starter #11 (Edited)
Only 4100 miles on the bike. Clutch is stock and works fine. It is possible that I may have bumped the kickstand. I'll have to investigate that idea. When it stalled, it was like a switch was thrown, very abrupt. The gear indicator is a GI Pro with ATRE. I read where Greywolf said the ATRE is useless on the DL650. Unfortunately, the place I bought it doesn't mention that. I would have bought the smaller, cheaper one had I known.
 

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The ISC valve, ergo idle speed, is not adjustable. It can only be reset. The air screws are for the idle mixture. If adjusting them changes the idle speed, the ISC preset has to be reset as in post #7 here.

I've never heard of an air screw adjustment causing a stall at idle. When I had my air screws adjusted, they were off 2" of mercury and the bike still idled fine. The only change was I was able to go as low as 2500rpm smoothly instead of the previous 3000rpm.

Make sure the TPS is adjusted properly. Adjusting mine to raise the bar at 2500rpm instead of the original 4500rpm made low speed maneuvering easier. If adjusting the TPS doesn't fix the problem, replace it. There is a new part number replacing the one fitted to 2007-2009 Wees, 13580-27G21 (replaces 13580-27G20). A number of people have gotten the dying at idle problem fixed by replacing the TPS.

07 DL650 Stalling - HELP!! - ADVrider

http://www.stromtrooper.com/v-strom...cussions/70075-intermittent-bogging-down.html
 

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GW - I know that the air screws don't adjust idle speed on '07 and up, but their adjustment does impact the range of adjustability of the ISC, and I don't know for certain if I've 'clipped off' one end or the other of the range inadvertantly in my endless 'fiddling'.

I will, however, relent and order a TPS under the new part number. :mrgreen:
 

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I wouldn't fiddle beyond synching with the air screws without an SDS or OBD tool. Even then, only move both screws in small increments in opposite directions to achieve synch. If you've been fiddling, take it to a dealer for a proper TBS. You'll probably save money if you take the plastics off first.
 

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Ken M,

Like greywolf is saying, the TPS is a really likely place to look. See his notes about setting the TPS in dealer mode. Setting the TPS by the rpm it raises is the poor man's way but it's getting at the same thing and will produce the a setting that's know to work. Use caution if you make that jumper so you don't connect the wrong wires. You should be able to check the TPS before you buy and install.

We have seen some idle problems caused by the ISC on the Suzuki LTA700 Kinq Quad but those stem from dirt getting into the ISC passage and causing it to stick. If you're running the stock air filter that's probably not your issue.

I'll try to clarify my bit about air bleed screws and the ISC for Suzuki bikes that have an ISC. There is no adjustment for the ISC. The ECU (computer) monitors engine rpm when all of the conditions are met where it should be able to idle (clutch in or nuetral, and throttle closed...if I didn't forget something else). If the clutch is out, the ECU has no chance at maintaining idle since the rear wheel could be driving the engine or pulling it down. The ISC is just a variable small air passage that bypasses the throttle butterflies. The target idle rpm is pre-programmed into the ECU and we can't change it. If the rpm is under the target rpm, the ECU instructs the ISC to open a little until the target is met. If it's too high, the ISC gets instructed to close a little.

If the ISC held still and we opened a bleed screw, the idle rpm would increase a bit. But since the ECU is actually keeping an eye on rpm, it would make up for our adjusted bleed screw by closing the ISC a bit. Suzuki doesn't have us set the bleed screws to a certain mixture. They have us set them so vacuum is the same for both cylinders. The bleed screw probably does have an affect on idle mixture because it adjusts an air leak. But Suzuki never speaks to that. Here I'm going to write without knowing the exact setting on the strom in my head, but many models get a certain cylinder set to a recommended starting point (# of turns out) and then you set the other cylinder to match vacuum. Some models get all cylinders set to some # of turns out and then you use the highest or lowest cylinder for the standard to match. Anyway, let's say in your case that where your bleed screws are set, the ISC has to be almost all the way open to maintain the target rpm. If some temporary condition would call for an ISC opening that is larger than it can provide, the rpm may get too low and the engine dies. On the Yamaha issue at least, the fix was to open both bleed screws more so a smaller portion of the air needed for a normal idle was coming through the ISC. That way there was more opening left above the normal requirement for the occasional condition that required more air to maintain idle.

So you can't really *adjust* the ISC, but if you change the air bleed screw settings, it will cause the ISC to normally operate in a different part of it's range.

After writing all of this, I'm remembering that there is a "learned idle" on some models. I'll try to look that up tomorrow. I think it relates to the position the ISC is parked in when you turn the key off so it will restart good next time. Reading the problems you guys run into and the detailed vstrom background of greywolf will probably turn into a refresher course for me and keep me thinking.
 

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Thank you,

I'm going to have a closer look at both ISC (both screws now out 2.5 turns, as was factory setting) and TPS (now set at 2,200 rpm - factory was 4,500).

I'm thinking the uphill run I start out on every morning causes a rich condition when throttle is slammed shut at the top, and the ISC can't go high enough open to compensate. Therefore, I'd like to try an additional 1/8th of a turn on both screws, while doing the TBS.
 

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I'll say it again. 2007-2009 Wees displaying this condition with a properly adjusted TPS need to have the TPS replaced. The air screw settings won't fix it. The ISC valve is not the problem. This is based on multiple bikes having the condition working fine after getting a TPS with the new part number.
 

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Ken,

and the ISC can't go high enough open to compensate. Therefore, I'd like to try an additional 1/8th of a turn on both screws, while doing the TBS.

Sounds like you understood what I was trying to explain we did on the Yamahas. But it sounds like what Greywolf is tell you is the likely problem just based on what's been found to solve the same problem on other rider's bikes. When you see Suzuki change the last digit in the part number, it's often an update to solve some issue. But sometimes the reason is unimportant like a gasket coming from a different vendor. Please continue to keep us informed.
 

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Thanks -

I've done 'nuff speculatin' - time to wrench...:confused:

My apologies to the OP for veering off course in this discussion.
 

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Discussion Starter #20
I guess what I've gotten from all this is that, if it continues, I need to find a good mechanic. The technical stuff is a bit (way) over my head, at least at this point. Thanks.
 
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