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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Purchased a 2017 2 weeks ago and have noticed an increase in vibrations in the seat mostly some in pegs and grips. Vibration in the seat is bad enough it becomes uncomfortable in my nether regions after 30 min or so.

Did my 500 mile service yesterday, Amsoil 10w40, wix filter, made a check of fasteners nothing seemed loose. no change in the vibs, and as I have just started to get above 5k rpm seems a bit worse under a load at higher rpms. Idle is a bit lopey but vtwin, doesn't surprise my much, my 05 I think was similar but it's been a few years.
Added some Techron to it last night for shits, maybe the time sitting since the dyno fuel at the factory has partial plugged a injector? fuel mileage is hovering around 60mpg using math.

Thinking a retorque of the engine mounts is a good place to start? Trying to decide if I want to bring it back to the dealer for this as they will probably just blow me off or do it myself.

Does anyone have the engine mounting torque and sequence info on the 17+?


Thanks
 

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I have no abnormal vibrations while riding my 2017 DL650. Its hard to say what your vibration is as there are so many things that it could be. I taught a class on vibration analysis at General Motors. One needs to know the speed where it occurs. Then try to narrow it down to is it road speed related or engine speed related. So, is it a tire out of round or out of balance or is it something in the engine or gear box.

One common problem we have seen is vibration caused by improper chain adjustment. I had this back in 2008 on a new Triumph Tiger I bought. The fix was super simple as I just redid the chain slack and all was well. Its a simple place to start. You don't want the chain too tight or it can do this. Also, too loose is not good either so you have to find the happy spot.

I have a service manual that should get the torque specs but its not with me at the moment. I will try to see if I can get it and give you a number. Meanwhile check that chain. Also, take a look at the tires. And, try to duplicate the vibration and then see if its is the same in different gears or if it changes depending on what gear/RPM you are using.
 
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Long, vibration related, saga.

I bought a K7 Wee back in 2014 and went through it stem to stern. CA Winter Project. Before I shut it down for its make-over I rode it 4-500 miles and it was very viby. I felt it in the seat, pegs, grips just like you. The mirrors vibrated at freeway speeds and were too blurry to use much. I did some research here and some riders install a 16T front sprocket to drop about 500RPMs at freeway speeds to reduce the vibes so I added that to my refurb list. When I got the bike running again it was still viby but less so on the freeway and it was my first V-Strom (or V-Twin for that matter) and I just learned to live with it as "normal". Since the bike had 80K miles I didn't think of the vibration as a problem.

About a year into running like this I was having trouble with the idle and some other issues and I dug into the throttle bodies. What I found was that the shaft seals and shafts were worn and leaking. It took a few tries but I was able to replace my throttle bodies with lower mileage TBs for a K9. Before I installed them I resynched the butterflies using the procedures documented HERE and HERE. There is no field procedure for synchronizing the throttle plates and Suzuki says to never touch the linkage screws. Once I sync'd and replaced my TBs the vibes were completely gone and the bike ran smooth as silk.

Fast forward to April of this year, I sold the K7 and bought an L4 Wee that is, unfortunately, very viby so I am back to square one. Actually worse because it is more viby than my old K7 ever was. I did some research on Gen2 Wees and the general thinking is that some bikes coming from the factory are noticeably more viby than others, so perhaps that is true of the 2017's as well. I think that somewhere in a Suzuki or Mikuni plant there is some kind of flow-testing, measurement machine for synchronizing the throttle bodies. The measurement for setting the synch between the front and rear throttle plates has a precision of 0.03mm or 0.0012in which is fairly high precision. My hypothesis is that this machine is calibrated after synching so many units or after some fixed period of use. So if your TBs were synch'd right after calibration then your bike runs smooth if your TBs are synch'd just before the calibration you get a viby bike. Luck of the draw.

Purchased a 2017 2 weeks ago and have noticed an increase in vibrations in the seat mostly some in pegs and grips. Vibration in the seat is bad enough it becomes uncomfortable in my nether regions after 30 min or so.

(snip)

Thinking a retorque of the engine mounts is a good place to start? Trying to decide if I want to bring it back to the dealer for this as they will probably just blow me off or do it myself.
I'd take it back and complain and see what they say. I agree its very likely they will just blow you off and say it is "normal" but maybe they won't and if you don't ask you won't know. FYI, I think the engine mounts require a special socket to retorque so you'd have to buy that for $50(?). As another poster recommended get the speed at which you are seeing vibrations as that is a big clue and can point to wheels or engine. My L4 has a peak vibe at around 5200RPM which I think is a primary mode for the engine. I am planning on resynching the throttle plates this Winter but I hate the vibes so much I might do it sooner, I will post my results if it works (or doesn't). The definitive test for your bike would be to swap out the throttle bodies with a known good set but I am not sure how practical that would be, especially on a new bike still under warranty.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
My mistake for not including the rev range, I mostly notice it between 4500 and 6k, the intensity varies with engine load, worse under load. I have attempted to isolate engine from driveline by simply pulling in the clutch and letting the rpm drop when doing this the vibrations do stop. Chain slack is sitting just about 40mm (measured with bike on side stand). Reving the engine either with bike rolling and clutch in or in neutral the vibs appear in a similar manner.

One thing it did change yesterday was removing the bead seat pad, which helped the "discomfort"

Thanks for the input, I think getting in touch with the dealer and making them aware is the best, and hope they're helpful.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Observations from yesterdays ride home,
I always let the bike hit at least two bars of engine temp before heading out, when cold idle is smooth not elevated rpm just smooth as the temp hits 2 bars the bike starts to have a rougher idle, almost a skip.
wondering if as the ecu leans out the mixture for operating temp I'm getting a lean skip. One of the things that I noticed due to the humidity and temp yesterday here near the ocean, the condensate coming from the exhaust was smooth puffs while under 2 bars, when the idle changed the puffs where much more irregular patterns.

My plan at this point is to ask dealer have a look possible suggest to check throttle body sync and throttle position sensor, if possible adjust to the high (richer) end of the spec. Hate to give too much input and draw them away from actually troubleshooting the issue. We'll see what they agree to...

Will be sure to follow up
 

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Not sure if chain slack spec is different on the new bikes, but spec for my '09 is .8'' - 1.2'' (20mm-30mm). Chain life is better if run loose, so I've often set it at 1.5'' but I notice more vibration and the bike is herky jerky with on/off throttle. Me and the bike seem happier when the chain is just a bit over 1'' of slack. I don't think this is the source of (most) of your vibration, but you may try tightening the chain a bit.

The vibration isn't normal, the 650 Strom is one of the smoothest bikes out there.

Hopefully the dealer will be of some help, but unfortunately if the problem isn't in the book or on a computer screen most mechanics will have no clue, diagnosing has become a lost art.
 
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I 've at 5k on my 2018 now, hope this helps.

I had, from 4800-5800 vibration it started just after I bought the bike, and got worse with the givi crashbars installed.

I followed the break-in procedure, and, after the 2nd oilchange (3500kms) I noticed it really started to smooth out, the engine is breaking in nice now ...loosening up, i think its a characteristic of the 90 twin and nothing to worry about.

I will say I've had two low speed drops in the dirt..(one on each side) it'll sound weird when I say it...but I swear it got better after that..like some things needed to settle into place and being gentle wasn't helping...I'm a bit of a dirt road adventure noob..so I still giggle like a kid when it gets squirreley.

Now with pulls to 10k rpm its sooo nice..
 
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Rikmos,

That's good to hear. I have just over 300 miles on my L8 650XT, I just started to develop a buzz around 5200 RPM, sounds like a plastic, maybe the Givi Crash bars I put on, but they feel stout otherwise. I'm just chalking it up to the Engine/Bike break in at this point. Just picked up the Service Manuel, so at 600 Miles I'll do the proper Inspection, Oil Change, and Torque of applicable nuts and Bolts. Figure this machine just needs to work out the kinks....Ride Safe..SB
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Bit of an update, spoke to the service manager at the dealership, he said could be tps or sync but Suzuki won’t warranty “adjustments”, his advice was with 800+miles the motor is not really broken in and still a bit tight so I should get some more miles and see what happens.
I asked him about the tos adjustment if the ‘17+ units had a dealer mode display like the gen 1’s he wasn’t sure.
More later I’m sure! For now more miles.
 

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Bit of an update, spoke to the service manager at the dealership, he said could be tps or sync but Suzuki won’t warranty “adjustments”, his advice was with 800+miles the motor is not really broken in and still a bit tight so I should get some more miles and see what happens.
I asked him about the tos adjustment if the ‘17+ units had a dealer mode display like the gen 1’s he wasn’t sure.
More later I’m sure! For now more miles.

Typical dealer BS, what you are experiencing has NOTHING to do with a tight engine. My dealer would most certainly had adjusted the TPS and or TB synch under warranty, once again your dealer is being a prick. You may have to pony up and pay for it, but I do agree to just ride your bike for a good while and see what happens. These engines and bikes are overall pretty silky smooth, in particular the new 17/18 models.
 

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Typical dealer BS, what you are experiencing has NOTHING to do with a tight engine. My dealer would most certainly had adjusted the TPS and or TB synch under warranty, once again your dealer is being a prick. You may have to pony up and pay for it, but I do agree to just ride your bike for a good while and see what happens. These engines and bikes are overall pretty silky smooth, in particular the new 17/18 models.
What he said almost 1300 miles on my 18 and smooth up till 7500 - that's as far as I rocked it so far. Seems to love 7000. And my favorite gear is 4th - I'll report back when I redline it.
George
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Agreed, I seem to notice I’m in 4th a lot too!

So looking for a little assistance from the tribe. Does anyone know which terminals to jump for dealer mode on ‘17+ 650’s? And verify the location of the plug.
I’m going to see if there is a “line” on the display and where mine is sitting currently.

Thanks
 

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Take it Back

My mistake for not including the rev range, I mostly notice it between 4500 and 6k, the intensity varies with engine load, worse under load. I have attempted to isolate engine from driveline by simply pulling in the clutch and letting the rpm drop when doing this the vibrations do stop. Chain slack is sitting just about 40mm (measured with bike on side stand). Reving the engine either with bike rolling and clutch in or in neutral the vibs appear in a similar manner.

One thing it did change yesterday was removing the bead seat pad, which helped the "discomfort"

Thanks for the input, I think getting in touch with the dealer and making them aware is the best, and hope they're helpful.
Dealers are notorious for not doing a good complete "Setup" of new bikes. This seems to be even more likely with Suzuki dealerships for some reason. The setup tech, usually the least experienced in the shop, should have not let the bike go out with vibes like you are indicating.

If the dealer gives to any resistance, find another dealer, or go directly to Suzuki's headquarters for resolution.

I'm betting it's poor TB sync causing the issue, or could be bad engine balancing at factory, either way, make them fix it..
 

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Dealers are notorious for not doing a good complete "Setup" of new bikes. This seems to be even more likely with Suzuki dealerships for some reason. The setup tech, usually the least experienced in the shop, should have not let the bike go out with vibes like you are indicating.If the dealer gives to any resistance, find another dealer, or go directly to Suzuki's headquarters for resolution.
I think a bad setup would only impact peripheral items like handle bars, cowling, exhaust, etc. I don't recall off the top of my head but the post-ship setup is mostly add fluids and attach, tighten and adjust a few items after taking it out of its crate. Its not complicated which is why the rookie gets the job and those steps are unlikely to cause the vibrations described by the OP. Based on the symptoms it isn't suspension/wheel out of balance/alignment but something with the motor.

I'm betting it's poor TB sync causing the issue, or could be bad engine balancing at factory, either way, make them fix it...
I agree and disagree with caveats.

OP is chasing his tail. The TPS and TB Sync would not cause engine vibrations at 5000RPM but would only cause idle and poor performance coming off idle. It is important to note that "TB Sync" is ambiguous and needs to be defined. For 2007 models and later the TB Sync that the service manual describes is adjusting the idle air screws only. This adjustment balances the air flow between cylinders at idle when the throttle (and thus throttle plates) are closed. It just makes the bike less lopey at idle and makes for a smoother transition from idle to open throttle. It has no effect on cylinder balance after throttle is cracked open even a little so cannot be the cause of vibrations at 5000RPM. As for the TPS, it has an adjustment range of about 5deg and, as far as I know, assuming the sensor is good if you put it at either extreme the bike would still run but would probably have bad off-idle, poor low/mid throttle response and perhaps poor gas mileage due to bad data going to the ECU. In any case, I don't think it could cause engine vibrations at 5000RPM.

For the pre-2007 models (in addition to the idle-air sync) there is a "TB Sync" procedure in the manual for adjusting the sync or balance of the throttle plates between cylinders by adjusting the linkage between the front/rear throttle body. The modern manual has no such procedure and says don't mess with the linkages as this is set at the factory, there is no field procedure to fix this and the service department can only replace the TB's if needed. If the throttle plates are imbalanced due to a bad factory set or someone adjusting the linkage screws this WILL cause vibrations at 5000RPM and across the whole range. This is because unbalanced throttle plates means one cylinder will be generating more power than the other. Because of this history, it has been suspected but not proven, that on occasion a mechanic has done a service on a newer bike but used his experience from the older models, i.e. he adjusted the linkage screws thus putting the motor out of balance. Suzuki needs to update their manuals and training and, most importantly stop calling the "idle air sync" a "throttle body sync" to avoid confusion.

Regarding the OPs problem, I think it is either a vacuum leak (which can put the cylinders out of balance) or imbalanced throttle bodies (from the factory or due to a mechanic's mistake). I would continue to press the issue with the dealership and at least get them to rule out a vacuum leak. If it is bad throttle bodies (which I think it is and discussed here in post #3) then it is unlikely that the OP will get any relief from the dealership. They won't troubleshoot that and won't fix it, unfortunately you are on your own. As discussed in post #3, my new-to-me 2014 which I bought with only 3700 miles is way to viby and I suspect out of balance TBs. The previous owner had the dealership do all the service so I suspect a mechanic messed with the linkages. Also, the bike is a bit lopey at idle and the rear idle air screw is noticeably raised above the level of the throttle body which is another clue.
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
Check engine light F1 came on last Thursday so dropped off at dealer last Saturday finally got a call Thursday nothings wrong with it. Cleared the code rode it said it was fine, blamed a “rattle” on my pannier racks, bullshit nothing changed when I put them on. To add insult to it the check engine light came back on 3 miles after leaving.
Service manager said they are going to order me a new O2 sensor. Apparently that was the first code.

I’ll let them replace the sensor then I’m going to find another dealer and escalate this.
 

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Rikmos,

That's good to hear. I have just over 300 miles on my L8 650XT, I just started to develop a buzz around 5200 RPM, sounds like a plastic, maybe the Givi Crash bars I put on, but they feel stout otherwise. I'm just chalking it up to the Engine/Bike break in at this point. Just picked up the Service Manuel, so at 600 Miles I'll do the proper Inspection, Oil Change, and Torque of applicable nuts and Bolts. Figure this machine just needs to work out the kinks....Ride Safe..SB
This defintely sounds like the Givi crash bars. Check the connection where the Givi crash bars connect in the middle. I put some silicone around connection points to act as a dampener, which has cured the vibrations at 5000k rpm
 
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