StromTrooper banner

21 - 40 of 87 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,495 Posts
Wow! I'm doing the exact same work, myself, on my Wee. My second time for valve work (this bike and previous Wee). Will be first time for fork seals. I was beating myself up over having spent ~$100 on torque wrenches.

:smile2:

Have you tried cleaning the fork seals?

They usually don't fail unless really abused!
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
795 Posts
If it truly is $600 it may be worth it to have it done. I already own the shop manual and torque wrench but may need a few more tools if I attempt it myself. Taking the fairing and tank off is pretty simple too.
I recommend a quality set of feeler gauges, motorcycle specific is helpful for the shape, but normal will suffice. I also used a basic caliper, but that was just because I wanted to measure the shims coming out and going in...didn't necessarily trust their markings to be accurate. Also, one of those large magnetic tool retrieval gizmos on a stick was very helpful for removing the tappet and shim together without dropping either into places that are hard to get them out of.

You may want to get some assembly lube and silicone gasket glue. The assembly lube will help ease your mind if the bike will sit for very long after assembly (dry bearings and journals are most vulnerable to wear). Some recommended getting assembly lube without moly in it due to the wet clutch. However, the Suzuki assembly grease contains moly. I just used that ubiquitous red stuff... The silicone is for resealing the valve cover gasket. However, I was able to carefully remove and replace the valve covers several times without peeling off the glued portion (left it in the head). No oil leaks. YMMV.

Also recommends (?requires?) that you drain and remove the radiator for access to the front head. Good opportunity to replace the coolant. I also took the opportunity to check the spark plugs. They are overdue for change based on mileage interval, but look like new. (There has been much debate about the recommended replace interval for those plugs.)

I removed the base mount for the rear of the tank and coolant reservoir bottle and was able to remove the rear valve cover without additional disassembly.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
795 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,704 Posts
Have you tried cleaning the fork seals?

They usually don't fail unless really abused!
No, I haven't, but I'm up for giving it a try. Have put the fork work off until I get the engine valve job done, and that's being delayed by a more pressing job of cutting and removing seven large forsythia bushes for my mom. Mom's well into the 80s (YO), and I decided to put priority on her work...

Forks very likely have original fluid (2012) in them. I watched some YouTube videos about fork work a few weeks ago, but have already forgotten what I saw. Anyway, if I have to remove forks to change the fluid, I might go ahead and replace both seals and associated bits.

Thanks for the link, and the interest.

:smile2:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
228 Posts
No, I haven't, but I'm up for giving it a try. Have put the fork work off until I get the engine valve job done, and that's being delayed by a more pressing job of cutting and removing seven large forsythia bushes for my mom. Mom's well into the 80s (YO), and I decided to put priority on her work...

Forks very likely have original fluid (2012) in them. I watched some YouTube videos about fork work a few weeks ago, but have already forgotten what I saw. Anyway, if I have to remove forks to change the fluid, I might go ahead and replace both seals and associated bits.

Thanks for the link, and the interest.

:smile2:
i just purchased the seal cleaner thing for about $22 due to a leaking seal on my bike
used it today and it removed tons of crap
so far so good......
i know some use the seal mate $7 or film or milk jugs, ect
good luck
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
137 Posts
Discussion Starter #26
You said if 99 of 100 are in speed doesn't mean you're will be is very true, but then it's a math problem. If 1 out of 100 valves need adjusting then paying about a grand to do a valve adjustment is a huge negative EV proposition. I liked your later response, but basically while bike is 12k, if everyone does valve adjustment it's 80k spend but only one bike needed it. It's worse than taking insurance in Black Jack.

More costly maintenance jobs, if your not doing then yourself are a simple math problem... Is (failure rate X cost) < (maintence cost). If it's close do it, but I'm at 17k miles and live in NYC. I can do simple items like oil, chain, and sprockets myself. I think the math says gamble on valves....
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,405 Posts
I did the valve check on my 2014 650 at 30,000 miles(first one) the intakes were in the middle of the range and the exhausts were at minimum. I was lucky to have a friend nearby to help with the shim change. My dealer wanted $750 for the job and I wonder if the exhaust valves being just inside the spec if they would have done a shim change or said they’re good and see you in 14,000 miles.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,495 Posts
You said if 99 of 100 are in speed doesn't mean you're will be is very true, but then it's a math problem. If 1 out of 100 valves need adjusting then paying about a grand to do a valve adjustment is a huge negative EV proposition. I liked your later response, but basically while bike is 12k, if everyone does valve adjustment it's 80k spend but only one bike needed it. It's worse than taking insurance in Black Jack.

More costly maintenance jobs, if your not doing then yourself are a simple math problem... Is (failure rate X cost) < (maintence cost). If it's close do it, but I'm at 17k miles and live in NYC. I can do simple items like oil, chain, and sprockets myself. I think the math says gamble on valves....

I was told there would be no math :confused:

Lot of un-supported speculation on your part. Just check the valves it's routine maintenance. The motor is very reliable especially if the service intervals are met. Yea it will run even if neglected until it doesn't.

You should calculate the cost of getting a non-op bike out of the middle of nowhere. :grin2:
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
1,926 Posts
Was wondering if anyone knows of a situation where the valves were left to get way out of spec and caused a problem. What would happen? Too tight, a burnt valve? Too loose, excessive noise? I wonder how conservative the manual specs are.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,673 Posts
If 999 out of a thousand valves are in spec, that in no way means your valves are in spec. You want to gamble and not do the recommended maintenance, go right ahead, knock yourself out.
But you dont know what you dont know, and you can't know unless you check.
Realize that valve adjustment also affects valve timing, which affects engine vacuum. I find it interesting that owners will spend all kinds of $$$ on farkles, and items they think are upgrades like exhausts and power commanders, but wont do the basic maintenance which can have yield the most improvement. I have many, but one particular horror story concerned a rider in my club with an '08 CBR900rr that had a poor idle and a rough feel. He spend $$$$$ on all kinds of stuff over a 2 year period. I had him bring it over, measured exhaust header temperatures, ran a compression test, followed by a leakdown test and... The problem the whole time was intake valves way too tight.
Get the service info, get some tools, and if you think you are able, at least check your valve clearance. It's not rocket science or brain surgery.
For a feeler gauge set, this is what I use and recommend. They are perfect for those valves where a conventional feeler gause set is too wide--like, for example, Yamaha 5-valve heads. Inexpensive as well.
https://www.tooltopia.com/lang-tools-1610.aspx
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
228 Posts
You said if 99 of 100 are in speed doesn't mean you're will be is very true, but then it's a math problem. If 1 out of 100 valves need adjusting then paying about a grand to do a valve adjustment is a huge negative EV proposition. I liked your later response, but basically while bike is 12k, if everyone does valve adjustment it's 80k spend but only one bike needed it. It's worse than taking insurance in Black Jack.

More costly maintenance jobs, if your not doing then yourself are a simple math problem... Is (failure rate X cost) < (maintence cost). If it's close do it, but I'm at 17k miles and live in NYC. I can do simple items like oil, chain, and sprockets myself. I think the math says gamble on valves....
I am at 20k now and need to check.mine
I am.also in NYC (Long island)
We should get someone who knows and have a valve check.party

Sent from my E6810 using Tapatalk
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,603 Posts
Was wondering if anyone knows of a situation where the valves were left to get way out of spec and caused a problem. What would happen? Too tight, a burnt valve? Too loose, excessive noise? I wonder how conservative the manual specs are.
This is a good question and one I have taken some flack over the years about. You will hear a loose valve and it will not cause any damage. A tight valve can burn the seat, but it is so rare in modern engines) that I worry more about lightning strikes.

Shim and bucket valves are very durable and stable. Most modern cars have this valve train, run at high RPM and most never get checked unless a mechanic is chasing a problem.

I check bikes now at double the factory specs. I do not touch them until they are below spec. If they are at tight or loose limit, I leave them alone.

Contrary to my peers here, I think the risk of muffing a valve adjust or screwing up timing is worse than the chance you might have a tight valve.

If the bike develops a hard starting issue when hot, or starts to pop on deceleration under engine braking when it never did before. Have the valves checked.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
2,505 Posts
The 1 in a 1000 is far from my experience. Having done 30-40 1st time strom valve adjustments for other people I found 2/3 were somewhere within spec. 1/3 had 1 or more valves out. 1 even had a exhaust at .040. Thats .028 over the .012 max recommended. I you only keep your bikes 20-40K you'll probably never see any damage even if a problem is brewing. I kept my 650 for 122K and adjusted it once,but checked them 8 times. My 18 1000(Bought in May) has 15,800 and will be checked this month.
As Clint Eastwood said "Do you feel lucky?"
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,673 Posts
^^^ "Well...do ya, PUNK?"
That is why I laugh when a poll is taken about whose valves were in spec. What possible difference does it make if somebody else's valves were in spec?
Yes, you could conceivably have valve and/or valve seat problems, but there is a driveability and efficiency benefit to be had by setting clearances correctly if they are out of spec.
I'd want my bike to be as perfect as possible in terms of stock tune. I dont understand the constant searching for excuses NOT to check/adjust valves.
But hey...that's just me.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
11 Posts
15k service costs

Just had the dealer do my 2014 Suze V Strom 1000 15k mile service today (14,477 miles).

I did my own oil change a couple weeks back, which synth oil and filter ran me $42. The dealer charged me $330 for the service, which included $50 for cyl head gaskets (he gave me a price break since he never mentioned them in the first place). Valves were all in spec, needed no new spark plugs, no new air filter (blew it out with compressed air.) All other fluids good. They were changed out when I bought the bike used, at 9800 miles. Throttle bodies were fine. Brake pads good, no other concerns. Bike was running well when I took it in, and no differences really noted after running it around for 68 miles. I was congratulated on my fairly clean chain which I do myself: kerosene and Amsoil 75W90 synth gear oil. The mechanic said, they see some pretty bad chains. 2.8 hours labor @ $90/hour.

So, if the dealer does the service AND all your stuff is good, I can see $400. Any fluid changes or valve adjustments, additional time or parts, will start to add up. $400-$600. Spark plugs (not likely at 15k miles,) but next 15k mile check, who knows? Chain, sprockets, brake pads, air filter, eventually headed my way.

So, what do I have after $375 or so spent? A clean bill of health . . . . is it worth it? Maybe not every dollar, but overall, I'd say yes. One of the big issues is putting the bike on the computer. That will tell a story too. But, get the service quoted for sure.

Just my two cents.

K
Melbourne, FL
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,673 Posts
Just had the dealer do my 2014 Suze V Strom 1000 15k mile service today (14,477 miles).
I did my own oil change a couple weeks back, which synth oil and filter ran me $42. The dealer charged me $330 for the service, which included $50 for cyl head gaskets (he gave me a price break since he never mentioned them in the first place). Valves were all in spec, needed no new spark plugs, no new air filter (blew it out with compressed air.)
From my '14 Suzuki DL1000A factory service manual, Page 1D-4:

Air Cleaner Element Inspection
1) Inspect the air cleaner element for clogging.If it is clogged with dirt, replace it with a new one.
NOTICE
*Do not blow the aircleaner element with compressed air.

So...you think the dealer did himself and you a favor by not replacing the filter if it was clogged?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
11 Posts
The service writer/chief mechanic and I talked about the air filter and the spark plugs. If either were degraded enough, he had my go-ahead to replace. As I bought the bike used, I had no idea how prior owner rode regarding dusty conditions or off-road. (My 4,500 mile usage was on-road only.) So, the mechanic checked. As the condition of the bike at purchase did not suggest much, if any off-road use, I was probably going to be ok. The air filter was described as 'lightly dusted/hardly used,' etc. or something similar. As the revised service intervals don't call for it to be replaced anyway until 22.5k miles, it was deemed, "good to go." So I feel ok with that outcome.

One other modest advantage to taking the bike in for factory service is, the bike is in the computer and I can look at a future buyer and say, "well, at this maintenance point, this is what factory technicians said."

Yes, I'd have liked to do the service myself, but have neither the proper workspace, tools or training to do what the dealer does.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,603 Posts
^^^^My guess is the dealer did not stock the filter and wanted the bike moved off the lift. I replace them on bikes, because it takes so much time to get to them. However, I can not count the number of times I have carefully blown off a filter on stuff where it is easy to access.

On my New Holland they recommend doing the primary air filter blow maintenance every 10 hours. It does have a 2 stage filter though.

AND, gawd yes you can damage a filter.
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
16,241 Posts
Appears I am still in the minority, one day I may regret my own advice. :wink2:

I will let you know if it happens:crying2:

MEH.....you'll just total another bike before it's time for a valve check. >:)
 
21 - 40 of 87 Posts
Top