StromTrooper banner

1 - 20 of 80 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
360 Posts
Interesting how few of those top tier names are readily available in the Seattle area. With all the mergers and rebrandings, Shell and Chevron are still somewhat common. But most of the gas is sold at independent or small regional chain stations, or convenience stores, supermarkets or Costco up here. I make an effort to go out of my way and pay a few cents more a gallon to fill up at a Chevron whenever possible, just because of the Techron additive package. I have read a lot on the merits of Techron and motorcycles.

Another pet peeve of mine is that ethanol is added to all auto gas produced by the refineries in Washington up by Anacortes. Some of the small regional chains here say they get ethanol-free gas shipped in from the refineries in the Rocky Mountain states, but I have my doubts as to the consistency of supplies from there. The local stations listed on the pure gas website still have the ethanol stickers on their pumps, and the person behind the counter cannot tell you if ethanol-free gas is in their tanks or not.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7,437 Posts
Add ConocoPhillips' 76 brand to the Top Tier in the Seattle area. I don't know if ConocoPhillips' Circle K stations are the same gas.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
964 Posts
"Top Tier" sounds a lot like a branding pay-to-play scheme to me... like the "Who's Who," or Better Business Bureau.

A TT gas dealer in a remote area whose gas is laying around in their tanks longer before you buy it might have crappier gas than a non-TT who's moving enough to get a delivery every day. IOW, I'd rather have fresh non-TT gas than TT gas with a bunch of condensation and rust in it.

For that matter, I'm more interested in this: http://pure-gas.org/
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
24 Posts
I'm Not Picky

I've been putting gas in my cars and motorcycles for years and never experienced a problem or felt I got better performance from a particular brand. I think it would be beyond the realm of a typical rider or driver to be able to determine whether or not a specific brand made a measurable difference in an engine's performance or longevity.

My criteria has always been price and convenience.

I do acknowledge, though, that there's always a chance buying gas that has been contaminated with water.

Gas, go and have fun.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
652 Posts
Interesting how few of those top tier names are readily available in the Seattle area. With all the mergers and rebrandings, Shell and Chevron are still somewhat common. But most of the gas is sold at independent or small regional chain stations, or convenience stores, supermarkets or Costco up here. I make an effort to go out of my way and pay a few cents more a gallon to fill up at a Chevron whenever possible, just because of the Techron additive package. I have read a lot on the merits of Techron and motorcycles.

Another pet peeve of mine is that ethanol is added to all auto gas produced by the refineries in Washington up by Anacortes. Some of the small regional chains here say they get ethanol-free gas shipped in from the refineries in the Rocky Mountain states, but I have my doubts as to the consistency of supplies from there. The local stations listed on the pure gas website still have the ethanol stickers on their pumps, and the person behind the counter cannot tell you if ethanol-free gas is in their tanks or not.
I heard from an employee that works for one of chevrons competitors (at an actual terminal, not a gas station) that chevron's gasoline is better because of their additives. And that he uses it in his vehicles.
 

·
Administrator
Joined
·
13,502 Posts
If you read the Top tier website you will realize it wasn't' created by the Oil Companies but rather by Auto Manufacturers.

The minimum additive package that is mandated by the EPA in the USA relates to what was needed in engines Twenty Years ago (? not sure of the exact time-frame) and doesn't really meet what is required by modern engines. So the car companies got together and decided on a set of standards called top Tier.

I'm not sure that our bike engines need it but the additives are better at reducing deposits in the engine keeping injectors, etc clean. Given a choice I would always use it but wouldn't lose sleep if I couldn't find a top-tier station while riding.

As footnote, I have been selling Porsche's for the lat 17.5 years. Porsche started recommending oil changes on our cars yearly or 24,000km/15,000miles in 1993. In 2005 they went to two years or 30,000km/19,000 miles. In 2008 Porsche had noted the degradation of oil and spark plugs in North America and went back to yearly or 15,000km/9,000 miles althogh from what I understand stayed with two years/30,000km in Europe. This is because of how poor quality North American fuel has become and likely part of why Top Tier was created (btw Porsche was not part of Top Tier.)

..Tom
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
88 Posts
Here in Indiana, Indianapolis, all gas runs like crap !!! On the northwest side of town there is a Rock Island refinery which supplies gas to all brands. They all fill-up from the same rig. Since most all oil is now transported via underground pipe lines it all gets mixed up so you'll never truely get brand specific fuel.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
964 Posts
... On the northwest side of town there is a Rock Island refinery which supplies gas to all brands. They all fill-up from the same rig. Since most all oil is now transported via underground pipe lines it all gets mixed up so you'll never truely get brand specific fuel.
I've heard this often, too: that all gas comes from the same place/ refinery. Each retail brand just puts in their additive package.

Literally: tank truck pulls up to the refinery and fills up his 10,000gallons (or whatever). "Additive package" is in a 5 gal bucket he dumps in the top after filling up. He drives to the gas station, the 5 gal of additive are sloshing around mixing with the 10k gal. At the gas station, he dumps his truck's contents into the station's underground tanks, then heads back to the refinery to repeat the process... potentially for a different "brand" of gas.

Gas is a commodity - like wheat, or corn, or coal. One company's coal is not necessarily better than another's... especially if they're all mining the same vein.
 

·
Administrator
Joined
·
13,502 Posts
I've heard this often, too: that all gas comes from the same place/ refinery. Each retail brand just puts in their additive package.
...
And that is *exactly* the point of Top Tier. The gas isn't (generaly) the problem, it is the addivies that are needed in the engines to keep them running right. If you were able to use straight gas with no addives you would likely find you have no engine before long, or have one that is running like total crap.

..Tom
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
4,177 Posts
When i did my 10 US State tour in July i went through a lot of questionable gas stations. A few days after getting home i let my bike sit a few days and when i started it up, the fuel pump started making a whining noise it never did before. I filled up with non ethanol gas (92 octane) for the next few fills and now that whine from the pump has completely gone.

The type of fuel used, the way it is stored, and the purity of it, can make a big difference in your engines life.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
88 Posts
I've heard this often, too: that all gas comes from the same place/ refinery. Each retail brand just puts in their additive package.

Literally: tank truck pulls up to the refinery and fills up his 10,000gallons (or whatever). "Additive package" is in a 5 gal bucket he dumps in the top after filling up. He drives to the gas station, the 5 gal of additive are sloshing around mixing with the 10k gal. At the gas station, he dumps his truck's contents into the station's underground tanks, then heads back to the refinery to repeat the process... potentially for a different "brand" of gas.

Gas is a commodity - like wheat, or corn, or coal. One company's coal is not necessarily better than another's... especially if they're all mining the same vein.
If nondiscript gas makes you mad consider this. The Wall Street crooks buy and trade oil futures, make millions off paper work and rape this country's economy. Originally futures were not designed to be traded.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
43 Posts
I work for a refinery. Gas is gas, and as long as it meets spec, it is impossible to differentiate, other than the additives. Cargos of gasoline are bought and sold among all the majors based on supply and demand at any given time. I'm not convinced that Techron, nitrogen or any other additives package is any better than the next, but to each his own.

If you want to get into the nuts and bolts of differentiating gasoline, to my knowledge, the only discernible difference between gasoline properties would be that which has been cracked vs. that which wasn't. I'll let you google cat cracking, but for those in touch with your inner engineering nerd, it has to do with the olefins and aromatics. Nobody here will ever notice the difference in their bike, though.

Rodknocker, I'm sure you mean well, but I think you have some loose ends to tie up on the futures markets.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
4,177 Posts
I filled up with non ethanol gas (92 octane) for the next few fills and now that whine from the pump has completely gone.

Just curious: How do you think using a higher octane fuel fixed your electric fuel pump?
The higher octane fuel has no ethanol in it. Maybe it doesn't really make a difference, but it corrected my problem, so maybe it does?

I'm thinking the non ethanol fuel was cleaner and removed some of the deposits building up in the HP filter, so now it runs quiet again.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
43 Posts
The higher octane fuel has no ethanol in it. Maybe it doesn't really make a difference, but it corrected my problem, so maybe it does?

I'm thinking the non ethanol fuel was cleaner and removed some of the deposits building up in the HP filter, so now it runs quiet again.
Ethanol adds octanes, but dilutes energy density. I see what you are trying to get at, but I don't think clear gas is going to clean the system. Not sure what fixed your system, but it would be interesting to get to the bottom of it.
 

·
Administrator
Joined
·
13,502 Posts
I filled up with non ethanol gas (92 octane) for the next few fills and now that whine from the pump has completely gone.
Just curious: How do you think using a higher octane fuel fixed your electric fuel pump?
In some cases higher octane fuels also get a better additive package. The octane may have made no difference, but the better additives may very well have cleaned something out that was reducing flow and causing the fuel pump top work harder.

..Tom
 
1 - 20 of 80 Posts
Top