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Discussion Starter #21
Thanks guys,

20 reply's in 24hrs. A lot for me to work through. But, OK yea will work on my standing.

It's not so much the standing but the control of the bike when standing, I can stand for 20 mins at a time, no problem- on the arches, a good lean in, egs a bit bent. But coming up to a gravel turn, needing to gear down, shift weight to the outside, and then get the smooth acceleration through the turn as you hit a bump, all while standing thats a bit tougher :-/.

Accidental throttle twists on the rough when standing is also something I will need to figure out how to stop.

I'm just shy of 6ft, and have the bars risen as much as possible on my '13 without changing/reworking cables.

How hard is it to lower the pegs? If you lower them doesn't that mean they can then scrape on the ground as you lean through a corner on tar (has happened once and scared the hell out of me).

Thanks for all the technique tips, will work through them.

Have a good Xmas fellas.

Matt.
 

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I found that lowered pegs made me feel more in the bike than on it. I highly recommend them. and lowered pegs rarely get in the way on winding sealed roads.
You will get real tired real quick if you intend tor ride the outback standing. As somebody said earlier, sit when you can and stand when you think necessary. Straight dirt road? Sit unless the surface gets soft, lumpy or changes texture.
Slow for any surface transitions. Accelerate through any soft sections.
 

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Discussion Starter #23
So if I go for new pegs which lower/forward the pegs, or use the lowering brackets, how difficult / much work is required to re-position the brake lever and shifter?

e.g if I use the SW-mototech Evo Pegs, and does the story change if I use the CNC cheepo DL650 Extension pegs?

These woudl allow me to position the pegs 20mm down and 20 forward.

Thanks- Matthew.
 

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So if I go for new pegs which lower/forward the pegs, or use the lowering brackets, how difficult / much work is required to re-position the brake lever and shifter?

e.g if I use the SW-mototech Evo Pegs, and does the story change if I use the CNC cheepo DL650 Extension pegs?

These woudl allow me to position the pegs 20mm down and 20 forward.

Thanks- Matthew.
Hi Matthew,

Here - Footpeg and Control Lowering Kit . Rick (richlandrick) is a member here who bends over backwards to help us. I have his footpeg lowering and control relocation kit as do dozens, if not hundreds, of us do. Great products and quality.

Cheers,
Glenn
 

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Big ADV bikes aren't dirt bikes. You don't ride then in the attack position, butt back leaning over the bars with elbows up. You have very little body influence on a bike that's over 500 lbs.

Riding in an upright position lets you relax and ride extended distances. Yea your legs are mostly straight and your body is slightly leaning forward most of the time.

@Spec's post raises an interesting question: Do we marginally increase what little body influence we have (on the Vee, for instance) by standing? I think so, in many terrain conditions. I am working on making standing while riding an option - a viable one, meaning I've done it enough to be comfortable doing it, and know what to expect when in that position. Whatever makes me a more capable rider...
 

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Standing is good for steering with the foot pegs.

The center of gravity thing has been debated forever but I'm in the camp that says it raises it. You effectively create a long lever to the foot pegs.

That's why you can weight them to steer (well weave really) while standing but not sitting.
 
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One thing I learned doing the Oregon BDR this summer is the stock pegs aren't great for prolonged standing. We hit a lot of washboard, and sure, you can ride it seated, but it's not real fun. Maybe on a bike with bigger wheels and more suspension it's OK, but I stood a lot, and after a few days the balls of my feet were getting sore. So I installed wider pegs...which make upshifts a bit tricky. Thinking about trying Pivot Pegs, which of course aren't cheap.
 

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Unless the road is so rough vertically that the suspension can't handle it, not much reason to stand. Even then you don't really stand, you lift your butt off the seat but keep your knees bent so the bike can rise and fall under you. Mostly means you should slow down. A high level of fitness is needed to maintain that position for any length of time. Much tougher to maintain front-to-back position on the bike in this position as the bike speeds up and slows down too. There's a reason arm-pump is a problem in motocross. Certainly an over-sensitive throttle can lead to problems.

Riding in slippery conditions requries you to stay balanced side-to-side on the bike, so minimal steering input is required to balance. In a mud race, the riders keep their butts on the seat, leaning the upper body and weighting the footpegs to try to keep the bike under them. Generally easiest to feel what the bike is doing under you when you are sitting. If standing, any slip or bump that puts you off-center can be difficult if not impossible to recover.

I think the best prep for learning to ride in challenging conditions is to spend some time on a dirt bike.
 

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Big ADV bikes aren't dirt bikes. You don't ride then in the attack position, butt back leaning over the bars with elbows up. You have very little body influence on a bike that's over 500 lbs.
Watch any Chris Birch video and you'll see that's not true. Your body movements and position makes a big difference even on a big 500+lbs bike. I weigh 130lbs, maybe 20 or 30 more with gear, and I can certainly compress and release the suspension, front or rear, as needed. Try to ride over a small fallen log, at a slight angle. Do nothing and your front wheel will slip and you will fall. Compress and release the suspension like you would on a mountain bike, and you'll clear it just fine.
 

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Standing is good for steering with the foot pegs.

The center of gravity thing has been debated forever but I'm in the camp that says it raises it. You effectively create a long lever to the foot pegs.

That's why you can weight them to steer (well weave really) while standing but not sitting.
Agreed. The center of gravity argument was created by someone who doesn't fully understand physics but was looking for a reasonable explanation why standing helps. When you stand the overall center of gravity of the combination bike+rider rises, no ifs or buts about it. But the trick here is that the rider can now shift his weight relative to the bike very easily and quickly, forward, backward, sideways, and therefore correct where the overall CG should be, relative to the two contact patches of the wheels. This is most easily experienced when going through loose sand. If the rider is sitting there is no way to correct for the bike starting to lean when the wheels dig in, on the other hand if he/she is standing they can steer with the foot pegs like you pointed out.
 

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Watch any Chris Birch video and you'll see that's not true. Your body movements and position makes a big difference even on a big 500+lbs bike. I weigh 130lbs, maybe 20 or 30 more with gear, and I can certainly compress and release the suspension, front or rear, as needed. Try to ride over a small fallen log, at a slight angle. Do nothing and your front wheel will slip and you will fall. Compress and release the suspension like you would on a mountain bike, and you'll clear it just fine.
2 things right off...

Chris Birch is no mere mortal on a motorcycle!
He rides a KTM.

Staying V Strom centric yea you can compress the forks with technique and move the bike around some with body weight.

When things go wrong off-road though you're mostly along for the ride. It's front end heavy and no amount of body english is going to help in soft sand!
 
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The thing about standing on the pegs lowering the center of gravity that some people don't get is simple. when you are sitting you are applying weight to the seat even if you move back and forth with your upper body. and the seat is a lot higher than the foot pegs. if you ride standing up you are applying weight to the foot pegs not the seat, you move around better and easier when standing than sitting. if you were to lock your arms and legs then standing on the pegs wouldn't help, but you don't lock your arms, you allow and control some movement while applying your weight to the footpegs.

when standing you can do a lot better job of loading and unloading the suspension to help get over logs and rocks. and absorbing bumps and potholes

being able to ride standing up is a very good option to have in hand.

Mx riders used to practice by filling the gas tank and removing the seat. then they went out and turned competitive lap times for 45 minutes.
 

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Hi All,

Have been riding a v-Strom dl650 for a couple of years. I'm in sydney and planning a trip up north into Queensland and left into Northern Territory. A lot will be on gravel roads, probably sandy in parts.

I have raised my handlebars and have angled the levers down a bit, but still find it pretty uncomfortable riding and changing gears standing.

So how important is it to be able to stand through the slippery bits and sandy corners?

Do you folks sit or stand the rough on a vStrom?

I'm hoping not to have to lower the foot pegs.

Thanks for your help - Matthew.

I would encourage you to make your bike comfortable for standing simple from an enjoyment stand point. I find that when I stand, the bike falls out of my vision and I am completely in the landscape. I compare it to snow skiing, the feeling of being completely apart of the surroundings just floating through it. I've also enjoyed this on paved twisty mountain roads. Instead of trying to go fast and drag a knee, I prefer to slow down, stand up, and slalom my way through the mountains. So much fun.
 

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Hi All,

Have been riding a v-Strom dl650 for a couple of years. I'm in sydney and planning a trip up north into Queensland and left into Northern Territory. A lot will be on gravel roads, probably sandy in parts.

I have raised my handlebars and have angled the levers down a bit, but still find it pretty uncomfortable riding and changing gears standing.

So how important is it to be able to stand through the slippery bits and sandy corners?

Do you folks sit or stand the rough on a vStrom?

I'm hoping not to have to lower the foot pegs.

Thanks for your help - Matthew.
I have ridden a significant amount of Outback Australia and it is important to be able to stand when riding in sand, particularly deep sand. Use a lower gear and open the throttle when bike begins to bog. This has the effect of lifting the front wheel out of the sand to enable steering. It's the front wheel bogging that causes you to lose control.
Use lower tyre pressures in the sand. 20psi. This allows better traction. Consult a tyre expert for advice on the best tyres for the conditions. I haven't lowered the pegs but have been told this gives better control in sand and loose gravel as it lowers your centre of gravity which affects control.
You will have an amazing time. Outback Aussie is an amazing experience. I can't wait to get back.
 

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Discussion Starter #36
Thanks for all the feedback, very useful. I'll be putting on the adventuretech lowering kit. At first thought it was way to complex, then saw the vid which made it look a lot simpler.

If you are riding 100KM on dirt roads, with the PSI down (say 20), does this result in faster wear on the tires?

Thanks - Matthew.
 

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Thanks for all the feedback, very useful. I'll be putting on the adventuretech lowering kit. At first thought it was way to complex, then saw the vid which made it look a lot simpler.

If you are riding 100KM on dirt roads, with the PSI down (say 20), does this result in faster wear on the tires?

Thanks - Matthew.
Depends on how aggressively those 100KM are. The technical answer is yes but practically speaking, the increased rate of wear is negligible. Lower PSI on pavement represents a higher rate of wear than on (pure) dirt. But those 100KM are unlikely to be pure dirt, and two of the vulnerabilities of lowered PSI are 1) less resistance to obstacle puncture and 2) rim damage. Many YT experts claim the weight (size) of the bike contributes to the value of that diminishing return. Personally, I believe a 40 - 60% decrease in PSI might cost you a grand total of 1,500KM over the life of a tire, but that would be a case of regular, rugged, challenging 100KM runs. Otherwise, the actual number of lost mileage would be significantly less. DISCLAIMER: These are personal-experience conclusions. Your experience may vary. Hop this helps!
 

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If you are riding 100KM on dirt roads, with the PSI down (say 20), does this result in faster wear on the tires?

Thanks - Matthew.
I take this to mean riding at 100km/hr on dirt roads.
If so the danger is unexpected rocks, sharp edges, and stability. I would not feel comfortable, miles from anywhere on one of Australia's remote tracks traveling with only 20 psi. Sure it would be great on an individual sandy section, but not universally. Dirt roads are not all dirt and hitting any protruding rocks or sharp edges at low tire pressures and speed will either puncture your tire or most likely dent your rim.
Probably not so much a problem at 30-40kph. On long outback roads your speeds will inevitably be 70-110km/hr and you will regularly come across grids and floodways which are usually where the road goes from dirt to concrete, often with an exposed concrete lip. And then there are occasional loose rocks and partly exposed embedded rocks.

I do not recommend lowering your tire pressures in such conditions. Some people do - I do not. You can spoil your day very quickly when 100kms from the nearest house and 400kms from the nearest town. I would rather ride a more squirrely bike knowing that my wheels and tires have some protection from damage.
 

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I found that lowered pegs made me feel more in the bike than on it. I highly recommend them. and lowered pegs rarely get in the way on winding sealed roads.
You will get real tired real quick if you intend tor ride the outback standing. As somebody said earlier, sit when you can and stand when you think necessary. Straight dirt road? Sit unless the surface gets soft, lumpy or changes texture.
Slow for any surface transitions. Accelerate through any soft sections.
I would add that getting as far back as you can on soft sand is very important on the strom...
Makes soft sand ssoooo much easier..
The 650 Strom is THE worst bike I've ever ridden in sand.
Very short travel, harsh suspension like the Stroms, is unforgiving in sand.
Also, on wet days, I wind out most of the preload front and rear. This really helps in mud, especially that greasy red clay we get around here...
 

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I would add that getting as far back as you can on soft sand is very important on the strom...
Makes soft sand ssoooo much easier..
The 650 Strom is THE worst bike I've ever ridden in sand.
Very short travel, harsh suspension like the Stroms, is unforgiving in sand.
Also, on wet days, I wind out most of the preload front and rear. This really helps in mud, especially that greasy red clay we get around here...
you evidently haven't ridden a Harley in sand

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