StromTrooper banner

1 - 20 of 24 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
207 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
Been a while since I've posted. Now doing so from Qld. Moved up here about a month ago. Trailered the Wee from Adelaide to Tamworth, then rode from Tamworth to Brisbane. That was a nice ride.

Anyway, the front suspension doesn't feel all that good now and I want to do the forks, so...

I'm looking at the kit from SvRacing (Race Tech DL650 Fork Springs and GVE Package)

Is this a good way to go, or is there a local solution for similar money?

Also, what weight springs and oil would you recommend?

I'm hovering around 75kg out of my gear. I mainly ride tar, but do venture onto gravel occasionally. Moderately aggressive in the twisties, and often have my 67kg missus(don't tell her I told) on the back.

Any info to help would be appreciated.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,322 Posts
Broadly speaking this is about the best upgrade possible and you will feel the benefits immediately.
There is lots of good info already available but also some misconceptions too. The major misconception is rebound. Often the rough 'bounce' is a result of too light a grade of fork oil. Do not be afraid to use a cocktail of 12.5wt, or 15wt to slow down the rebound.
There is far too much info. to go into here but you will find the emulators are an excellent way to improve your suspension. At your weight you will not need to go to heavier springs. Maybe .90kg springs if wife + luggage is the usual way you travel.
12.5/15wt oil, emulators (or intiminators) and fork brace.:thumbup:

Saturn 5

P.S. "It can be a long long road to perfection."
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
207 Posts
Discussion Starter #3
At your weight you will not need to go to heavier springs. Maybe .90kg springs if wife + luggage is the usual way you travel.
12.5/15wt oil, emulators (or intiminators) and fork brace.:thumbup:
"
Thanks for replying, but do you mean just add the emulators and not worry about new springs?

I really want to put new springs in. At the moment the bike feels bad going around tight right-hands(roundabouts) feels like it wants to fall. Not sure if trailering it with the suspension compressed for approx 1500klm, has done something to one of the shocks, but I have no confidence in it's handling at the moment.

I have a fork brace already fitted, and have loosened and re-tightened it and the front axle and pinch bolt, but it made no difference.

Usually just me and luggage, but fairly often with wife.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,322 Posts
"Falling" into a corner is almost always a sign of knackered headstem bearings. Falling is a classic sign. I remember this clearly as it was the first repair on my first bike in 1966. Shite:yikes: that long ago. It also happened to a 2 hand z650 in later years.
Look up threads on 'sag' and 'static' sag and get this right before you race off on new springs. You may need them but don't rush.

Too heavy a spring, makes for a harsh ride on our rough roads. OK for race tracks!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
608 Posts
You and I are about the same weight. I think the std suspension that the Stroms come with, is aimed at 70-80kg riders.

I have no problem with the OEM front forks/springs.

Suspension is a v complex area. You might think 'falling' feeling is due to front forks but could be rear suspension setup or tires (or headstem bearings as Saturn 5 suggested).

Good luck with your experimenting. It might be worth seeing a local suspension dude. Someone in BNE might be able to suggest who to see.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
207 Posts
Discussion Starter #6
"Falling" into a corner is almost always a sign of knackered headstem bearings. Falling is a classic sign. I remember this clearly as it was the first repair on my first bike in 1966. Shite:yikes: that long ago. It also happened to a 2 hand z650 in later years.
Look up threads on 'sag' and 'static' sag and get this right before you race off on new springs. You may need them but don't rush.

Too heavy a spring, makes for a harsh ride on our rough roads. OK for race tracks!
Okay, I just did the steering check as per the manual and there is just the very slightest perceivable amount of movement. Never felt this before, so your probably right.

The manual says to adjust the tension as follows:

Check the steering movement in the following procedure.
• By supporting the motorcycle with a jack, lift the front wheel
until it is off the floor by 20 – 30 mm (0.8 – 1.2 in).
• Check to make sure that the cables and wire harnesses are
properly routed.
• With the front wheel in the straight ahead state, hitch the
spring scale (special tool) on one handlebar grip end as
shown in the figure and read the graduation when the handlebar
starts moving. Do the same on the other grip end.


• If the initial force read on the scale when the handlebar starts
turning is either too heavy or too light, adjust it till it satisfies
the specification.
1) First, loosen the front fork upper clamp bolts, steering stem
head nut and steering stem lock-nut, and then adjust the
steering stem nut by loosening or tightening it.
2) Tighten the steering stem lock-nut, stem head nut and front
fork upper clamp bolts to the specified torque
and re-check
the initial force with the spring scale according to the previously
described procedure.
3) If the initial force is found within the specified range, adjustment
has been completed.


I don't have a spring scale, but could get one, but my question is:
Can the highlighted bits be done without taking the Steering stem upper bracket off?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,322 Posts
OK. How sensitive are your hands? You don't have to have the spring balance.
Sit on bike, hand brake on and shake, don't confuse the rattle from front the brake and the rattle around headstem. If you have a helper let them sit on bike and shake while you hold as best you can the top of headstem, under the tripple tree, between forefinger and thumb and feel a tiny clunk.
I'm confident this is all or part of your prob. from your description
What Iv'e done to my Wee prior to later replacement; Loosen center lock nut 32mm. Loosen two 10mm pinch bolts at top of forks. ( they are already 12mm proud of top of tripple clamp, aren't they, they should be for better quick steering) Now, oops, you need a tool to tap ( with a hammer of course) the locking nuts firmly, I purchased a square rod 1/4x1/4x250mm from an engineering supply shop, a good nut and bolt supply shop. Tap until you feel solid resistance but NOT jambed tight. When finished the job, the bars should still swing freely side to side when wheel is raised.
Put it all back the way you found it at the start and double check it's all good and tight. Tripple check, it's not a difficult job if you like to maintain your own equip.

Good luck, lets know.

Saturn 5
P.S. No need to remove top tripple tree, just loosen 32mm and 10mm nuts.
P.P.S. A screw driver will damage the locking nuts. They are soft alloy. Use the rod or something blunt.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
207 Posts
Discussion Starter #8
Thanks for the tips. I'll let you know how I get on. I have a set of good punches, I'll check and see if one of them will be suitable(might be too short), I'll find something though. Will try and do it tomorrow arve.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
2,943 Posts
Been a while since I've posted. Now doing so from Qld. Moved up here about a month ago. Trailered the Wee from Adelaide to Tamworth, then rode from Tamworth to Brisbane. That was a nice ride.

Anyway, the front suspension doesn't feel all that good now and I want to do the forks, so...

I'm looking at the kit from SvRacing (Race Tech DL650 Fork Springs and GVE Package)

Is this a good way to go, or is there a local solution for similar money?

Also, what weight springs and oil would you recommend?

I'm hovering around 75kg out of my gear. I mainly ride tar, but do venture onto gravel occasionally. Moderately aggressive in the twisties, and often have my 67kg missus(don't tell her I told) on the back.

Any info to help would be appreciated.
New springs will make a big difference. Go with 0.90s and 10w fork oil.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
120 Posts
Fork Off !!

Hey Mark.
How's things in God's country?
Hope you guys have settled into life up there. The Adelaide Collective misses you already ??..........Well sort of I haven't organised a ride for ages.

As for the forks. You could come back here and ride the CoolStrom, she had a complete fork makeover early last year.

I have approx same bike / rider weight as you and went with.

-Intiminator fork valves (modded by the Glitchmeister....thanks Pete) with 0.056inch shim stack in each.
-0.85kg Sonic springs (Dont use anything heavier)
-Modded damper rods.
-2.5 wt PRO SF Silkolene fork oil.
-I have a fork brace also, same as yours.

This setup works reasonably well but I still think these are very basic poverty pack forks as fitted. I also have an ELKA 3 way shock so I think the overall handling has improved across the board, the rear having a posative influence on the front forks by default.

Brake dive has reduced considerably which is a good thing and compliments the 4 pot caliper conversion. But that's another thread!!

If you do go the whole hog. .....I know you man you will. Replace the head stem bearings with tapered rollers it is a cheap and easy conversion for a much longer lasting solution. Especially as you like to rip it up off road.

If you need any more info you know how to contact me.

Cheers mate Ian
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,322 Posts
I replaced my headstem bearings with tapered roller bearings and that is my first preference. Tightening the existing bearings info was to determine if ' falling' was a headstem problem.
I am 80kgs and sometimes carry camping kitchen sink. I did install .90kg springs but removed them and went back to OEM and 12.5wt oil, as I don't race track days and I don't enjoy my fillings being loosened on our back ( tar and dirt ) rough roads. Compliance is what I want. A little brake dive is OK by me. I think it can be a little overrated, but thats me. But set the 'SAGS'.
Take one step at a time and get to know the workings. BTW there is about 100 combinations or more. Sorry to tell you that.:mrgreen: Perfection takes a long time.
If you prefer, go to a professional. About $100/hr
No matter what please keep all informed on result.
Saturn 5.....sadly pensioned off ...until the next moon mission?
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
1,748 Posts
In my own experiences on DL650, the "falling off" feel is a function of the following:

1) headstem bearing - tapered one are much better - but u can try tighten it first if test shows it to be still serviceable;

2) tyre profile and your suspension setup/riding habbits mismatch - hate Scorpion love Trail Attack but i have seen PeteW going absolutely nuts around the bends on the Scorpions; - have you used a different tyres and notice any differences

3) REAR Rebound to quick/soft - try adjust your stock shock rebound to see if it helps - this is free and will make a differences, so i try this first

4) Front compression /spring too soft

5) Front rebound too slow/hard - probably unlikely since your bike is stock.

------

Your 2008 DL has an effective spring rate of 0.72kg for most of its travel, as measured by local suspension guy last time it was out - it's probably designed for blokes up to 70kg. A 0.85kg spring will probably suit quite well. given the compromise you have to make 2 up and solo.

--------

Spend some time to get your rebound sorted first - it's time consuming but worthwhile. 70% of your results comes from this.

------
Intiminator or emulator works to relive damping pressure when encounter sharp bumps - now does the riding you do encounter a lot of those. - dont get me wrong, i use intiminator myself and would recommend it, but know their limitation - it aint a fix-all. Frank Pon says he wouldnt bother putting one in.
------

Rear shock accounts for a lot - there's no point getting the last 10% out of the front until the rear is sorted - if you are getting a rear shock - i wholeheartly recommend ELKA - and getting from Blaire @ SV RAcing is the cheapest way i am aware of. It's adjustable everything, you can tune to your hearts content - only if it was so easy with the front!

-----
The benefits of getting springs and emulator from the states is the price - you can get almost 3 springs from Rich @ Sonic Springs for the price of one some locals want. Spring and emulator package from SV Racing is about the same price you have to pay for just the the emulator.

The professional will generally get you there 80%. You might find that if you are anal about things - fine tuning still have to be done by you.
-------

Yes after talking to Frank on the phone and not purchased anything from him, i would use his expertise if i was in Victoria - and i talked with a few tuners in my time:mrgreen:


---------------

good luck
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,322 Posts
Another set of headstem bearings.

While this thread has been active, I happened to be involved in installing yet ANOTHER set of headstem bearings.
My son has now completed UNI. and is now looking to finally leave the family home and strike out on his own. He has commuted approx. 50kms each day on his XL250 Honda Degree, a good little bike, a soft enduro type but a good unit. I have done all the regular maintenance, fluids,brakes,filters, chain and sprockets etc, but I haven't ridden it for about 15 months. In a loose arrangement, I will now use the bike for my off road adventures, maybe some logging tracks providing I can still manage what I once used to ride.
Well I hopped on it to ride to the servo just around the corner for fuel. I could not ride it 2 hundred meters. The steering kept centering straight ahead and the effort to turn the bars either way, made it unrideable. My son said it wasn't too bad!! He wouldn't know if it had square wheels!
So now as well as me having to pay new rego., two tubed tyres and new fork gaiters, .....another set of headstem bearings. Now it's not the most difficult of jobs but it is not my favourite anymore.

The new tapered roller bearings are now in and the old ball bearing shows 10 or 12 shiny little depressions evenly spaced around both races. No wonder the steering kept centering. Im waiting for the new gaiters to arrive and I have still to choose which new tyres to use. By time I have gone completely over it, it will be as good as new.

I can't wait to take it bush and I can't believe my son could ride such a horror. MY son!! Oh the embarrassment!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
17 Posts
You can use the Teknik website Find Parts for Your Bike

select your brand and model, enter your weight and it gives you the recommendation of which spring weight, oil and optional parts. You can order the DIY kits and fit yourself.
I definitely recommend fitting the Emulators (called TCV or Travel Control Valves on the Teknik site) they make a huge difference, changing the fork from a ordinary fixed orifice system to emulate a cartridge style fork. They also become fully adjustable for compression (although you do need to remove the valve to make adjustments) you'll need a drill press and enough tools to fully dismantle the fork if you want to fit yourself, but very possible for the average mechanically minded rider. (plus they have good instructions in case all else fails and you need to read them)

I have them in my 650, I weigh 90kgs and didn't change the springs and they work perfectly, especially noticeable when you hit corrugations on gravel roads, the fork doesn't pack solid and skim across the surface anymore, the wheel stays on the ground and I can still steer and brake, works just as well on rough tarmac roads too.
hope that helps
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,816 Posts
I replaced my headstem bearings with tapered roller bearings and that is my first preference. Tightening the existing bearings info was to determine if ' falling' was a headstem problem.
I am 80kgs and sometimes carry camping kitchen sink. I did install .90kg springs but removed them and went back to OEM and 12.5wt oil, as I don't race track days and I don't enjoy my fillings being loosened on our back ( tar and dirt ) rough roads. Compliance is what I want. A little brake dive is OK by me. I think it can be a little overrated, but thats me. But set the 'SAGS'.
Take one step at a time and get to know the workings. BTW there is about 100 combinations or more. Sorry to tell you that.:mrgreen: Perfection takes a long time.
If you prefer, go to a professional. About $100/hr
No matter what please keep all informed on result.
Saturn 5.....sadly pensioned off ...until the next moon mission?
Thanks for your post sat,I ride off road at roadworks only,and was close to spending money for the sake of keeping up with the Jones family--for what I do maybe a fork oil change will be sufficent.ta
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,322 Posts
G'day Blair, your correct, .85kg would have been about perfect but I had already purchased .90kg springs ( from you in fact) and was reluctant to buy another set untill it was due for the next lot of maintenance. Having said that, having a plush ride is my aim and I don't mind a little softness in the suspension. I recently sold my '04 GS1200 and I would love to have the compliant suspension it has. I would have kept it but I thought the gearbox on that model was nothing short of a bucket of bolts compared to the Strom.

Saturn 5
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
207 Posts
Discussion Starter #20
Thought I'd better post an update on this issue, though I've been thinking about not.

I'm very embarrassed and a bit ashamed, but it turned out the peculiar handling I was experiencing was due to low tyre pressures .

Not sure how long it had been, maybe close to a month:jawdrop:, since I last checked them. The front was down to 28psi and the rear was 33psi.

Bike feels fine now at the right pressures. I have not done any other maintenance to the forks or the steering head bearings at this stage, but will. Just have other areas that are higher priority for $ at the moment.

Can't believe I was that negligent of such basic maintenance:oops:
 
1 - 20 of 24 Posts
Top