StromTrooper banner

1 - 20 of 24 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
544 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
So I kind of wondered when or if you needed to have your cylinders bored due to wear,
How would the machine shop redo the plating on the cylinders ?

I know some bikes use a Nicasil coating, for which it's intended purpose is to reduce friction
and generate more power with less wear.

So would this mean that the Vstrom cylinders would have to be replaced and not bored oversize.?

I have never heard anybody talk about having engine work done like this on this forum. ... :wink2:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
878 Posts
There is a lot of confusion regarding this topic. First, it is not altogether clear what year Suzuki's version of Nikasil was used on the DL, SV or SFV bikes. Suzuki called it SCEM for Suzuki Composite Electrochemical Material and might not be the same as Nikasil used in race applications. GW had some comments on this topic and claimed that for some years the marketing specs and blurbs claimed SCEM coating for motors that had iron sleeves which makes it unnecessary so do a site search.

I am looking at doing a top-end and new rings on the front cylinder of a L4 DL650 that has SCEM coating but the bike only has 10K miles. From what I have read the SCEM coating is good for 100K miles barring any scoring damage due to broken rings or leaky injector washing the cylinder wall of oil causing scoring. The cylinders can be bored but you'd have to retreat the surface with Nikasil which would cost $$$$ so nobody does this, they just replace the cylinder. In my case, if I have to do the rings and there is no scoring then I'll just refresh the SCEM surface with an abrasive pad like scotch-brite. The SCEM coating is so thin it cannot be honed like older iron sleeved cylinders.

Take all of this with a grain of salt as I have only just started to research this area in anticipation of the top-end/ring repair on my 'Strom.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,705 Posts
Modern coated cylinders are very durable.

It's very rare to have to replate a cylinder these days. Short of a catastrophic event they don't wear much at all.

You can go through a lot of pistons and rings without having to worry about the bore. Talking about high performance dirt bikes. A street bike won't ever need a new bore from normal use.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
156 Posts
Modern coated cylinders are very durable.

It's very rare to have to replate a cylinder these days. Short of a catastrophic event they don't wear much at all.

You can go through a lot of pistons and rings without having to worry about the bore. Talking about high performance dirt bikes. A street bike won't ever need a new bore from normal use.
A few years back I blew the head gasket on my ‘84 Toyota pickup with the 22r motor which have plated cylinders, not sure what kind, 350k miles. When I tore it down to do the gasket I mic’d it and the cylinders were almost at Factory spec. Those coatings are incredibly durable.
 

·
Administrator
Joined
·
13,334 Posts
In the auto industry there are numerous reports of scored cylinders on plated engines. This is caused by starting plated engines and immediately running full load on the engine. (Ie starting and flooring it right away.) Not good foe any any engine and on plated engines this will score the cylinders.

Note this is not starting the engine and immediately driving/riding away **gently** which is the best way to warm up and engine.

..Tom
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,448 Posts
If you need overbore and sleeve or stirp a re-plate millennium plating are the folks to do it.

Strip and re-plate is $225 per cylinder.

Repair and re-plate is $295 per cylinder.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
14,818 Posts
BMW started using Nikasil in 1980-81. Joke was to re-ring at 100K for max performance.
Never had to and rode through the 100K mark on a few bikes. The '04 Wee has 100K on it now and don't feel any need for engine work. I might have the valves checked though.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,162 Posts
Yep, it's not cheap to fix though. If you want standard bore it's cheaper to get a used good fleabay plated cylinder in good condition. After 2011 for V-stroms. SFV had plated cylinders.

I put oversize SV JE pistons in my DL and it's around $295 to get EACH cylinder bored and replated.

Instead I got iron cylinders bored out for around $65 each.

BUT the plated cylinders are better IMO.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,162 Posts
I am looking at doing a top-end and new rings on the front cylinder of a L4 DL650 that has SCEM coating but the bike only has 10K miles. From what I have read the SCEM coating is good for 100K miles barring any scoring damage due to broken rings or leaky injector washing the cylinder wall of oil causing scoring. The cylinders can be bored but you'd have to retreat the surface with Nikasil which would cost $$$$ so nobody does this, they just replace the cylinder. In my case, if I have to do the rings and there is no scoring then I'll just refresh the SCEM surface with an abrasive pad like scotch-brite. The SCEM coating is so thin it cannot be honed like older iron sleeved cylinders.

Take all of this with a grain of salt as I have only just started to research this area in anticipation of the top-end/ring repair on my 'Strom.
V-stroms didn't have SCEM plated cylinders until 2012. All iron. AMHIK FYI
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
544 Posts
Discussion Starter #11
Yep, it's not cheap to fix though. If you want standard bore it's cheaper to get a used good fleabay plated cylinder in good condition. After 2011 for V-stroms. SFV had plated cylinders.

I put oversize SV JE pistons in my DL and it's around $295 to get EACH cylinder bored and replated.

Instead I got iron cylinders bored out for around $65 each.

BUT the plated cylinders are better IMO.
DT so what damage prompted you to have to do this ? And when you say "Oversize" 1mm bigger - 2 mm ?

Can you feel the difference compared to before ? Any better ? Thanks jake:smile2:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,162 Posts
+2mm JE pistons. No damage. Still have the original parts.

I had money to burn at the time and I like to DIY that stuff. My favorite hobby!

I'd like to spend more on a custom Dynojet map but it's another $495 bucks so. I'm not that rich. But I'll challenge anyone here to a 650 drag race.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
544 Posts
Discussion Starter #14
+2mm JE pistons. No damage. Still have the original parts.

I had money to burn at the time and I like to DIY that stuff. My favorite hobby!

I'd like to spend more on a custom Dynojet map but it's another $495 bucks so. I'm not that rich. But I'll challenge anyone here to a 650 drag race.
R U running the stock air filter and exhaust ?
 

·
Administrator
Joined
·
16,787 Posts
Found this quote with a search......

OK, that helps. It's not a nikasil coating per se, rather Suzuki's own forumula to pretty much do the same thing without some of the negatives of the actual nikasil coating:

According to a Mar. 21, 2004 Motorcycle.com article, the DL650 engine uses: SCEM (Suzuki Composite Electro-chemical Material) plated cylinders minimize cylinder size and improve heat dissipation. This shows up in google search also very often as the race proven nickel phosphorus silicon carbide coating.

It's good that its race proven, because apparently Nikasil had a way of breaking down under certain gasolines.

Also, the some of the other differences between the SV and DL engine are outlined here, in the Wikipedia article.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
544 Posts
Discussion Starter #18
04 article is 15 years behind us, any new breakthrough's since then ? I'm thinking it's
possible the same methods are still in use by Suzuki today.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,162 Posts
Bring that K4 V strom cylinder in for a repair and let them tell you if it's plated or not. Going to have to figure it out for yourself. :serious:

GW and I already went through this. And I saw it first hand.

I have a 2005 brochure and it says the SV650 had SCEM plated cylinders that year. :confused: Still don't think it does because it uses the same cylinder as the DL650.

K9 SFV part # 1 11211-44H00-0F0 CYLINDER, FRONT $527.25 $442.89
K5 SV&DL part # 1 11210-20F30-0F0 CYLINDER, FRONT $536.75 $450.87

This is a iron cylinder:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/SV650-Engine-Cylinder-Jug-Front-from-2007-Suzuki-SV-650-18-PARTS/352768765087?fits=Year:2005|Model:SV650S|Make:Suzuki&hash=item5222a82c9f:g:E~AAAOSweN9dZLDl&LH_ItemCondition=4



I know the K5 SV1000 had plated cylinders like the brochure says because I tore mine apart 3 times.
 
1 - 20 of 24 Posts
Top