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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I guess I should wash the bike more often. It gives me an opportunity for inspection. I'm missing the sub-frame bolt on the left side.

I'll order one from Ron Ayers, but in the mean time I want stop by the hardware store and get something in there.

What size bolt is that? 09103-10379 It's the bolt that attaches the sub-frame by the pegs. 14mm head.

Is it an M10? Fine course? Length?
 

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If M10, it can have a pitch of 1, or 1.25, or 1.5 mm per thread. It might be a good idea to pick up one of each from the hardware store and see which fits (probably one of the finer pitches). You can probably measure the depth of the hole by sticking a wire or something into the hole.
 

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A 14mm head probably means a 12mm shank. Coarse threads are normal. Fine would be unusual. You should be able to figure the length from the hole depth.
 

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Buster,
I have those bolts ... as well as a mulitude of OEM DL bolts from an wrecked 1000.

I'm only 90% sure it's a 12mm shank, definetely in a fine thead, .... (as stated, yes there's technically three pitches available to most metric bolts, but really only two are common....your hardware store won't have all three, and likely won't have but one type).
Ans yes, a fine thread metric is more commom than folks might guess. They are used often where they thread into aluminum, such as a spar framed bike .... a DL, SV, GSXR, 'Busa ... Yamaha, Honda, whatever.

I also remember the two top bolts are a different length from the bottom bolts, (one you need).

If your patient, with the tread pitch guage I have at home, I'll measure the bolt for you by 5:00 PM EST.
Dave
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
I'd appreciate whatever info you can give me. I stopped by Ace Hardware during my lunch break today and they were of little use. The guy there said it was probably an M9, and he didn't carry those.

I would have grabbed a couple bolts and tried them in the hole, but the frame is not aligned with the hole and will require some coaxing and prying that I wasn't prepared to do in the parking lot of Ace.

Thanks,
Buster

Buster,
I have those bolts ... as well as a mulitude of OEM DL bolts from an wrecked 1000.

I'm only 90% sure it's a 12mm shank, definetely in a fine thead, .... (as stated, yes there's technically three pitches available to most metric bolts, but really only two are common....your hardware store won't have all three, and likely won't have but one type).
Ans yes, a fine thread metric is more commom than folks might guess. They are used often where they thread into aluminum, such as a spar framed bike .... a DL, SV, GSXR, 'Busa ... Yamaha, Honda, whatever.

I also remember the two top bolts are a different length from the bottom bolts, (one you need).

If your patient, with the tread pitch guage I have at home, I'll measure the bolt for you by 5:00 PM EST.
Dave
 

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FORUM GODFATHER.....R.I.P. PAT
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I checked and the bolt is the same part number on my DL650. It's an M10x1.25 and is 30mm long.
 

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FORUM GODFATHER.....R.I.P. PAT
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I put a dial caliper on the threads to get the 1.5 pitch because I didn't want to take the bolt all the way out. So I did this time to use the pitch gauge and you're right. It is a 1.25 pitch.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Awesome, thanks guys. I'll get a bolt in there tomorrow. That'll make me ride with some peace of mind.
 

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Fasteners on Japanese and other Asian vehicles use JIS threads, which are finer pitch than the more commonly available course threads found on American and European vehicles.

JIS thread pitches run like this:

M5 - 0.80 (same everywhere)
M6 - 1.0 (same everywhere)
M8 - 1.25 (same everywhere)
M10 - 1.25 (US/Euro use 1.50)
M12 - 1.25 (US/Euro use 1.75)

So, when you visit your friendly local hardware store, you're looking for "fine" pitch stuff when you need 10mm or larger bolts and nuts.

Another part of the JIS spec concerns the bolt head sizes. For example, even if you do manage to find a 10 X 1.25 bolt, the head is likely to be 17mm instead of the JIS standard 14mm with a flange. This can cause other problems depending on the application and the room available. M8 fasteners use a 12mm wrench (and should normally have a flange), while the common US/Euro spec is 13mm.

It's a royal pain in the ass. :furious: Japanese vehicles have been common in the US for nearly 50 years, and US-made vehicles have been metric since the '70s.

Yet every hardware store has an aisles of gleaming, untouched hardware in inch sizes, with a few pitiful, desperately picked-over drawers containing a jumble of overpriced metric goodies. It's like they really don't want to sell any bolts and mess up their pretty displays.

Yes, I know lawn mowers, Harleys, and other agricultural devices still use inch hardware. But it seems like after several decades that the hardware stores of America might have caught up to reality a bit.
 

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FORUM GODFATHER.....R.I.P. PAT
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Those are tendencies rather than universal truths though. The Stroms have some M8s with 10mm heads some M10s with 12mm heads for example.
 

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Yeah, for the most part I actually kind of like the way the Japanese pick a bolt for a job. I bought 10mm 1.25 pitch bolts from a Home Depot ... the ones with the giant 17mm wrench heads.... obnoxiously large for a bike,... IMO.:green_lol:

Dave
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Got the bolt today.

Got home tonight and wrestled the subframe back into place with a bottle jack between the kickstand/passenger peg and a long screwdriver holding the bike up by the passenger peg.

:headbang:

I think they gave me a 1.5 pitch. Munged up the first couple threads a bit. I don't have anything to measure the thread pitch.
 

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You can use another bolt as a thread gauge. The thread pitch should be the same as any 8mm bolt you might have lying around. The difference is pretty obvious.

One of the brake caliper bolts would work as a thread gauge for 1.25mm thread pitch.

You have to watch those hardware store monkeys closely - they're not real bright sometimes. I once removed several 1/4" fine-thread bolts from a friend's vintage Suzuki GS1000. Some dipstick at the hardware store thought a 1/4" X 25 tpi thread somehow made more sense on a Suzuki than a regular 6mm X 1 thread. :furious:

They do look somewhat similar (25.4mm = 1", and 1/4" = 6.35mm, so 25 tpi looks very close to 1mm thread pitch), but how is it that a hardware monkey never heard of the concept of a metric vehicle, or just decides to eyeball something unfamiliar instead of measuring?
 

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Buster,
I'm sure the old "backed-out" bolt, as it clinged to the hole with only a couple thread holding it in, damaged the first few threads in the aluminum frame when your "fat butt", (he-he), finally overcame it and it was ripped free.
This would make the new bolt seem "wrongly pitched". I know you don't want to hear, "you need a tap" to fix things, but it wouldn't hurt.

Assuming you've not buggered up the new bolts first few threads, run it into the frame from the back side of the hole to see if it's truely the right pitch.

Oh, and if it comes to absolutely needing to chase the threads in the frame.... a decent substitute for a expensive tap that you'll only use to chase threads and prolly only once in your life, a good grade bolt, (not a softy), can have two lateral grooves ground down it, ( the first 1/4" of it's tip), that will be effective in cleaning out "junk" threads.

Note, absolutely best to do this from the back side of the hole as described above.

EDIT: Not saying the Home Depot guy couldn't have sold you the wrong bolt, they can. But I will say, I have an old biker freind who works at Home Depot and he's no dummy...just saying.

Dave
 

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One possible source for JIS fasteners is Northeast Fasteners Northeast Fasteners.

I also get my cutting tools, including taps, from McMaster-Carr McMaster-Carr. Order on Monday, on your porch by Tuesday or Wednesday.

You may want to think about investing in an inexpensive dial caliper and a metric thread pitch gauge going forward - cheap insurance and really handy. Check out Enco Enco.
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
I'll see if I can thread it in from the back side and clean up those threads a bit at the same time.

I have the actual suzuki bolt on order and on its way. I don't want to leave that huge 16mm socket headed bolt there forever.

If this bolt is the right pitch, it'll at least be handy to cleanup the threads and leave the suzuki gold plated ($$$) bolt unmarred.
 
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