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Discussion Starter #1
My next motorcycle will be a V-strom. I currently ride a honda shadow 1100 and a KLR650. The ergonomics of the KLR are much better for me but since I never take it beyond two track roads and ride mostly on pavement I will be selling both to get a strom. I should have enough cash for a used one with maybe 20 - 40,000kms. I'm very reluctant to go above my cash.

I've read all the comparison threads and I've ridden both the Vee and Wee. I know what they both offer. For my ridding style I know I would be happy with either though for slightly different reasons. Over all I'd rather have the 650, but the only downside that really matters to me about the 1000 is fuel millage.

What I'm wondering about is how to decide based on the market in my area.
- 650's only come up for sale every now and then
- 1000's are much more commonly found for sale
(does this mean 650 owners like them so much they never sell?)
- 1000's sell knew for about $2000 more then 650's but seem to be the same or less for a used one of comparable age and mileage
- used 650's are advertized for only only $1000 less or even the same as knew 2013's if they are well farkled
- I have not ridden the new wee, though some have said it is enough better to be almost as good as the old Vee.

So what really is the best value among these options?
I know there is no right answer, but it helps to have a little discussion on the topic.

One more thing. A local dealer claims that the latest 1000's are so de-tuned for emissions that they only have 20 or so more hp then the 650. Is this true and if it is what year is old enough to not have this "problem"?
 

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The new Wee is no old Vee. I've had both.

IIRC, the Wee is around 65hp, the Vee is 95hp (some pedant will be along shortly with the actual numbers). While that's only about 30hp difference, it's a huge percentage. They ride very different IME.

Having said that, they're both great bikes - I don't think there's a 'wrong' choice. I commute and tour/ take long trips on the bike. When I'm on the highway with the Wee, I miss the heck out of the Vee. I vaguely remember being frustrated by never getting out of second gear around town with the Vee.

It looks like the new Vee may complicate the decision even more.
 
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The best value is whatever bike suits your particular need and budget. Both bikes are solid and very usable.
Detuned ?? I don't think that's valid. Sounds like the dealer is smoking some loco weed.
 

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If you intend to do a lot of high speed freeway riding and/or 2-up riding, the Vee may be the bike for you. If gas mileage is a concern, the Vee should return anywhere from 40 to 45 miles per gallon. Or the metric equivalent there. The Vee seems to have been plagued with some engine issues that, for some reason, Suzuki has chosen not to have ironed out. Subsequently, many Vee owners have installed a Cobra or other tuner to smooth out the engine hiccups, surging, etc. Early Vees had issues with the clutch basket. Apparently that's not a difficult fix. And then engine seems to be a bit buzzy. Some report that the transmission gearing is off, and that below 65 mph, 6th gear is useless. All those things combined don't seem to have deterred Vee owners or potential owners from enjoying their bikes.

The Wee, OTOH, seems to be "just right," right out of the crate. Complaints about the Wee seem to be limited to the crummy seat and windshield, and a lot of accessories added are for convenience or to adjust it so it's perfect for the rider. The engine is smooth, doesn't lack power, and gets anywhere from about 50 to 60 mpg. Transmission gear is right on. Handling is great and the bike feels light, unless one is unusually short in the inseam, in which case the Wee may seem top heavy. It's just tall.

As for the Glee, the '12 and '14 models, I can't speak to whether it's that much better than the Wee that you should really consider it first. It's got newer styling and a little more power, and the suspension is better than on the /04--'11 models, which may or may not be of concern to you.

In the end, you should, if possible ride each one and decide for yourself which one appeals to you the most and which one will satisfy your needs best. So don't take our recommendations as they are merely opinions of satisfied owners. Whichever bike you choose, you will be happy with.
 

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What I'm wondering about is how to decide based on the market in my area.
- 650's only come up for sale every now and then
- 1000's are much more commonly found for sale
(does this mean 650 owners like them so much they never sell?)
- 1000's sell knew for about $2000 more then 650's but seem to be the same or less for a used one of comparable age and mileage
- used 650's are advertized for only only $1000 less or even the same as knew 2013's if they are well farkled
- I have not ridden the new wee, though some have said it is enough better to be almost as good as the old Vee.

So what really is the best value among these options?
I know there is no right answer, but it helps to have a little discussion on the topic.
650's do have a better resale value. Both in how quickly they sell and how much of the original purchase price they go for. The 650's are a VERY good bike and rarely need more than standard upgrades that most owners would do to any bike ( seat, windscreen, etc )

The 1000's have in the past had a reputation for needing extra work just to make them worth living with. Clutch chudder being one thing, that is now no reason to hold against buying one. Easily and permanently fixed. Fueling issues have been a problem with a good percentage from the original models. There are fixes for that ( Power Commander ) but that still left some unsatisfied. Now there is a new ECM from Suzuki that may be better than using the Power Commanders or Yosh tuning box. Fuel mileage can suffer when using the "tuners". Some Vees just don't seem to get the same fuel mileage as others.

A 2012-13 DL 650 is not in the same league as a DL 1000 when it comes to power.

A good used or new 2012 DL 1000 may be one of the best values in a bike in its class.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Good input from everyone so far. Thanks.

As I said strompilot, I have ridden both. I generally ride 110km/h on secondary highways and I like to ride long distances but mostly long day loops or overnight. I also ride around town to work now and then (2kms) or to pick up stuff at the store. I also ride gravel now and then, just to see new stuff, and if the gravel turns into hard pack or two track I like it. I no longer take the KLR off road. I have to discipline myself because every time I go there I come home with a back that doesn't let me walk or ride for a week. I'll stick to the mountain bike for the bush.

In these conditions the 650 has everything I need. In fact the KLR is fine. I only keep the shadow so I can take my wife or children along now and then. So I'm going to get a strom for the ergonomics I like with occasional short ride passenger ability.

Either the wee or vee will do what I want. I understand the differences between them and have no fear of taking apart a clutch or whatever needs doing. I guess I'm drawn to the 650 because I'm a less-is-more if it gets the job done kind of guy. But in the used market where I live used 650's go so high that it starts to make sense to spend the extra for a 2012+. I think the 1000's are the better value used, but I had my heart set on a 650. I know I'd enjoy twisting the wrist on the 1000 and who knows, perhaps with a better tool my wife would choose to come on overnighters with me??

Just sorting through my thoughts out loud here. I'll be on one or the other next season.
 

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In my area the 650s have always outsold the 1000 by a pretty wide margin. The 650 seemed to get a reputation from the get go as being bullet proof and essentially without issues (pretty much deserved)
The 1000 was dogged from day one with complaints about fueling and clutch 'chudder'. Regardless of whether they are significant issues or not, it hurt the resale of the bike and for that matter the sales of new ones.
It sounds like you really want a 650 so I would just get it. The strong resale will work in your favor down the line if you want to sell it.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
It sounds like you really want a 650 so I would just get it. The strong resale will work in your favor down the line if you want to sell it.
Your right, my plan was to get a 650. It's just that when I started shopping I see so many more 1000's for sale and often at better used prices then 650's. Makes me think I might run across a great deal on a 1000 that the owner is sick of trying to sell and will take a low offer. But then would I wish I'd ponied up and paid more for what I wanted or will I love the gooo of the bigger bike and be happy?

No one will know till I pull the trigger on one or the other. Your opinions are sure helping me look at all the angles thought.
 

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I tend to be a 'get what I want to get' kind of guy. Now me personally in hindsight, kind of wish I had just bought a 1000 in some ways although for my uses the 650 may be the better bike.
You may very well run across a 1000 that you can buy cheaper but I think the question of whether you will like it as much or not depend on what you perceived the advantages of the 650 to be. For example, if you wanted the better fuel mileage of the 650 and the slightly lighter weight or didn't want to risk the issue of having to correct the fueling of the 1000 (if it has that problem for you).
On the other hand if you really dig the power of the 1000, (which is what I see as the major advantage and a big one in my book) then maybe that is the way to go.
 

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When I was looking I noticed the same thing as you about the prices. I usually buy all my vehicles used. However with the prices on slightly used dl650s being as they are it didn't really make a lot of sense to buy used. A one or two year old bike for about $1500 less than new. Percentage wise that is a pretty good savings, but in money terms it's not that much more. If I ride this bike for two years and sell it for a $2k loss, I got my moneys worth in enjoyment.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
It just occurred to me that there is another issue that I should be taking into consideration. I live in the prairies and side winds can present a very real road hazard. Is the 1000 any easier to control in a strong gusting side wind because of it's added weight??
 

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I bet a Vstrom will feel like a smoother and larger KLR... but it still will rock around in windy conditions. Deciding on a 650 or 1000 is all about HP IMO, not stability. People love the DL650, but there is nothing wrong with the DL1000 either.

If your a mpg watcher, get the 650. I average just over 38 mpg with my DL1000 with a Big-B map. So far, the best I've seen is 40.21 mpg running mixed roads with a heavy load. When I get into the mountains and ride briskly I see 37 mpg easily, my last three fill up were 37 to 40 mpg loaded with camping gear while playing in tight mountain curves. On the way home yesterday I saw 40.21 mpg and I wasn't trying for economy. So, the DL1000 is decent IMO, its better than my stock KTM 950 which gave me 36 mpg or less on the same roads.

If you have to ask which one to get, then your a DL650 person. Those who "need" 80/90 horse power know without asking. :green_lol:

I personally like to pass quickly, run 90 mph often etc. So hp is needed to do that. But, I also like my DR650 when I'm only riding rough dirt roads... Depends on your type of riding too.
 

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The 1000 isn't just a 650 with additional horsepower. The liter Strom's engine has a markedly different personality. My experience is that even with sorted fuel mapping, it won't ever be a happy tractor. The DL1K's tall gearing and heavy clutch effort made city riding a tiresome affair for me, so much so that I purchased a scooter to attend to local errands in a drama-free manner. Anecdotes on this forum suggest that the 650 outsells the 1000 8:1, and I can understand why. The 650's combination of engine, seat height, and price-to-performance ratio is considered well-nigh perfect.

Here's how it is for me: when my mildly massaged 1000 is in the zone, it's bloody brilliant. Interstate* riding is effortless. Just effortless. At an indicated 90 mph, the bike was stable and the engine was still snoozing. I don't like drama at low speeds, and I sure don't like it at not-so-low speeds. The latter is where the 1000 is comfortable, where it is really in its element (yes, more so than the 650). That's enough to keep me happy. As has been suggested, your riding style should be your guide.

If you have to ask which one to get, then your a DL650 person. Those who "need" 80/90 horse power know without asking.
Yes.

*aka Trans-Canada Highway
 

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Just to add my two cents. I have never owned a DL1 but own the Glee since last winter. To me the only down side to the Glee is the only adequate power. If your riding background includes sportbikes (CBR/R6) etc, you will find the Glee to feel underpowered. I think you have to get your head around the fact that this bike is not a thriller, but at the same time, I don't feel that it under performs. If I had to do it over again, I may have sprung for a DL1 just for the power difference. I had sat on both and the DL1 physically felt bigger, even though they are very similar. The +/- 40lb difference will be made up in gear and farkles, so that would not be a deal breaker. Personally, if my Glee had another 20 HP I think it would be perfect. Re-gearing has help some (14T front sprocket) but it will never be what the DL1 is. If comparing the Glee to the KLR, they are very different in that the Glee has much more sport bike feel. My wife and I ride two up occassionally and she feels very comfortable on the back, with a topcase to lean on. Power is adequate at best. The Glee, in the end is a great value for what it is but neither is a bad choice.
 

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Today I got stuck in a massive traffic jam and had to do a U-Turn on the highway and get into moving traffic quickly going the other direction. I was sure happy with my 1000 power. You really feel it. The 650 tries, but no where near the same.

The same is true when you go to pass a truck or string of cars, or your following someone in the fast lane and they stomp on the gas. No trouble keeping up. It's rather humorous at times. There are cars that can smoke the Vee if your not ready, but not many.

Any kind of touring, you need the extra power. Especially all loaded up with camping gear or a passenger.

Gas mileage at high speeds works in the Vee favor as the RPM's are quite a bit lower than a Wee at the same speed.

The Wee is a great bike though, but don't be scared of a Vee. They are great bikes. Durable, and very fun.
 

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A 1000 and a 650 share essentially the same chassis dimensions, so they ride similarly. Sure, the 1000 may be a bit more of a handful, but both bikes are more similar than they are different.

With the new 1000, being released in 2014, you should be seeing a few bit more older generation 1000's hitting the classifieds, as well as plenty of 650's on the block.....once they realize Suzuki has addressed a LOT of the 'issues' that the 1000 had in years past.

Either way, you can't lose!
 

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If you intend to do a lot of high speed freeway riding and/or 2-up riding, the Vee may be the bike for you. If gas mileage is a concern, the Vee should return anywhere from 40 to 45 miles per gallon. Or the metric equivalent there. The Vee seems to have been plagued with some engine issues that, for some reason, Suzuki has chosen not to have ironed out. Subsequently, many Vee owners have installed a Cobra or other tuner to smooth out the engine hiccups, surging, etc. Early Vees had issues with the clutch basket. Apparently that's not a difficult fix. And then engine seems to be a bit buzzy. Some report that the transmission gearing is off, and that below 65 mph, 6th gear is useless. All those things combined don't seem to have deterred Vee owners or potential owners from enjoying their bikes.
Definitely Vees have some fueling issues - some worse than others. Mine mostly runs pretty good, but at times it can be quite glitchy. Nothing like grabbing a handful of throttle, expecting acceleration, only to get a big bog-down first.

And yes, Vees, and not just the early ones I don't think, have clutch basket issues, which result in some roughness at low rpms. I've just learned to live with it, rather than seeking a fix.

There's nothing wrong with the gearing - 6th gear is a tall overdrive unit, suitable for relaxed cruising at highway speeds. I personally find that quite useful for cruising at 120 km/h on the highway. In fact, that's one of the things I quite like about the bike - how low of rpms it turns at highway speeds.

I would not describe the Vee engine as buzzy at all. In fact, it's really quite smooth compared to my previous large-displacement 4-cylinder bikes (Kawi Concours, ZRX 1100) which all buzzed quite noticeably at top-gear highway cruising speeds.

So yeah, the Vee's a good bike, but not without some glitches. Besides the fueling and clutch issues, it's also heavier than the Wee, enough to be noticeable. For a trouble-free turn-key experience, the Wee is probably the better pick, with quite adequate power. The Vee has considerably more than adequate power, which may or may not be worth the glitches depending on what's most important to the rider.
 

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It's really pretty simple. Do much two-up? Get the Vee. Be prepared to address the fueling issues (i.e., Power Commander). Otherwise, get the Wee/Glee.
 

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I'm on my second DL1000 (an '03 first, now an '07).

If I were limited to one bike, I would not be satisfied with a 650, of any kind. I'm not a constant tourer, but I do take the occasional multi-state ride. No way would I be satisfied with a 650 for more than short/occasional interstate use.

As someone else mentioned, in the case of V-Stroms, the 650 and 1000 share a practically identically-sized chassis. It's not underbuilt for the 1000, so...

Inversely, I wouldn't want to use a 650 anything like a DL for anything off-road. That's why I have a DR650 (and a couple of trials bikes for serious off-road).

In other words, if the 650 were the only V-Strom...well, I wouldn't have a V-Strom.

Get a good well-taken-care-of DL1000, put a Hinkle Werks clutch basket in it at your leisure, and enjoy a practically perfect bike with plenty of power in a very well-mannered engine that's good for 300,000 miles if you want. "Strom" roughly means big wind or current. That describes the DL1000.

JET
 
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