[UBarW]

Its time to do stem nut check, etc. A bit of a wobble.

Looking on the net, that highpriced zuki special tool is showing four tangs on the end, some other homemade shop tools are showing six. It will be a few days before I get time to do this, so I cant just look at mine.

Which is it? four, or six?

I will be making my own. BTW if anyone has any dimensions on that nut, inside, outside diameters, too. Thanks...

 

[mudrat]

6 tangs, I used a piece of pipe I had lying around, OD 43mm, ID 35

pics and more info here, post 92

http://www.stromtrooper.com/australia-new-zealand/50363-its-started-10.html

 

[Black Lab]

You can find some useful information in this thread: http://www.stromtrooper.com/maintenance-how/47449-dl-650-how-replace-upgrade-steering-stem-bearings.html

 

[PTRider]

Two tangs works. Unless the workmanship on a homemade tool is very good, not all the tangs will be bearing against the slots in the nut, anyway.

Here's the tightening spec for the lower nut:
32.5 lbs-ft, turn the steering stem 5 or 6 times to ensure the bearings are seated, then loosed the nut 1/4 to 1/2 turn this will vary from motorcycle to motorcycle sez Suzuki. Install the lock washer and torque the upper nut to 58 lbs-ft. The chrome cover nut gets 65 lbs-ft.

 

[Black Lab]

Here's the tightening spec for the lower nut:
32.5 lbs-ft, turn the steering stem 5 or 6 times to ensure the bearings are seated, then loosed the nut 1/4 to 1/2 turn this will vary from motorcycle to motorcycle sez Suzuki.

Absolutely perfect advice.

On my motorcycle, with tapered roller bearings installed, I tighten the lower nut until the stem is "firm and snug". Then I back off that nut no more then 1/2 turn. I tighten down the lock nut, MAKING SURE that when I do this, it doesn't "spin" the lower nut tighter then it should be.

It is my SINCERE belief that ALL DL-650 motorcycles have been setup with the stem bearings to loose. This is why the "Wee Wobble", or "Decel Wobble" is so prevalent. It is NOT tire related. However, riders are fooled into that. Worn tires exacerbate the issue. New tires make it go away.......temporarily.

 

[greywolf]

That doesn't explain why I got a wobble with two different Continental Road Attack front tires and only with those tires. A stock Trail Wing, a Dunlop 607 and two Michelin Pilot Roads never wobbled. The first Conti RA went on after the 607 and it wobbled badly. The 607 went back on and it was fine. The second RA wobbled but not as badly as the first. Only the two RAs wobbled. No other tire did at any state of wear. Metzeler Tourances and Conti Trail as well as Road Attacks are also often reported to wobble.

 

[richw]

You can have both Cancer and Heart Disease

Tapered rollers

Tighten until there stiff motion. Work back and forth to get grease out and make sure all is seated.

While watching very closely back in off till the nut is loose , observing that nothing moved. Then hand tight about as hard as tightening a soda bottle

Over tightened the bike will pogo and wobble

 

[Black Lab]

That doesn't explain why I got a wobble with two different Continental Road Attack front tires and only with those tires. A stock Trail Wing, a Dunlop 607 and two Michelin Pilot Roads never wobbled. The first Conti RA went on after the 607 and it wobbled badly. The 607 went back on and it was fine. The second RA wobbled but not as badly as the first. Only the two RAs wobbled. No other tire did at any state of wear. Metzeler Tourances and Conti Trail as well as Road Attacks are also often reported to wobble.

Because, "the tension differs from bike to bike". Do you remember the rider who recently posted that his brand new bike, with brand new Trailwings, wobbled?

If you read ALL of the posts concerning this issue with this bike, and the related "tire fixes" for it, you will find contradicting solutions within the tire manufacturers.

I have proven to myself that I can make my DL-650 wobble, and NOT wobble with any brand tire mounted on the front of my motorcycle. And no, I am NOT over tightening the stem bearings

Pat, if there is one thing about the DL-650, that I am absolutely convinced that there is an issue with, it is that the stem bearings are too loose.

I was monkeying around with this just last week. I could make my Shinko 705 radial tires wobble, (exactly the same way that I can make all of the other brand tires I have mounted on the front wheel.), or I can make it not wobble. That front tire is now approaching 10,000 miles.

What PTrider wrote above is spot on for a very good start in finding what is a good tension for everyone's DL-650. I am at 1/2 turn back from "firm". I should be 1/3 back from "firm". There is just a slight touch of wobble left; very, very little.

A related symptom is, when "carving" turns with the bike, if the front wheel is not tracking through the corners, the stem bearings are too tight, or, (most likely!), too loose. The rider will feel this not only in the performance of the bike, but also in their arms; they will become weary with work.

I can rail through successive turns, with just a light touch on my handlebars. My front tire, (whether worn, or new), stays right on track.

B.L.

 

[greywolf]

What I'm saying is both are involved. Sure you can make any tire wobble by mal-adjusting the steering head bearing. Nothing I did could stop the Conti RA I had from wobbling. It isn't only the steering head bearing.

 

[Black Lab]

What I'm saying is both are involved. Sure you can make any tire wobble by mal-adjusting the steering head bearing. Nothing I did could stop the Conti RA I had from wobbling. It isn't only the steering head bearing.

Would you be interested in settling this by arm wrestling each other?

Best, two out of three?

Bear and Reuben can get in on the action too.

(You would figure out some smart way to beat me too, I bet.)

 

[greywolf]

Put a Conti RA or TA on the front of your bike and get back to me. I played with the steering head bearing and air pressures for days. I still wonder if the Scotts kept it from being even worse.

Don't fool with Bear. I tried to get him outside to keep him from playing with the refrigerator repairman and pulled his collar before he was fully awake and he bit me. He was very apologetic afterward but sometimes he acts before he thinks.

 

[Black Lab]

Put a Conti RA or TA on the front of your bike and get back to me.

Nope.

It is Shinko 705 radials for me from now on. Can't beat the price and the performance.

Besides, Bear already let you know I feel about your theory.

Reuben sent him a text message that set the gears in motion.

It had nothing to do with the refrigerator repairman.

:biggrinjester:

 

[tmcgee]

I'm disillusioned, Pat. Somebody else repairs your refrigerator? :jawdrop:

 

[ken mier]

I'm disillusioned, Pat. Somebody else repairs your refrigerator? :jawdrop:

I'm sure he emailed the repairman the schematics of the fridge first, having circled the offending part!! :green_lol:

I suppose a fridge won't ever leave you stranded beside the road, or worse...

 

[RichDesmond]

Guys, decel wobble is complicated. Lots of things bear on it. Tires are a huge factor (on the Strom, my experience is identical to greywolf's, Tourances and Contis are the worst offenders), but front and rear ride height, preload (front and rear) swingarm bearing wear, rear shock damping, loose engine mounts and yes, steering stem bearings can all play a part. Oddly, fork spring rate and fork oil weight seem to have have minimal effect.
In my experience tires are by far the biggest factor. After that, it's stuff at the rear of the bike that's the main driver, lack of rebound damping in the shock and worn swingarm bearings. Loose steering stem bearings won't cause an otherwise solid bike to wobble, but they will make any wobble that's present more noticeable. Overtightening them to cure a wobble is NOT a good idea, it's not their job to function as a steering damper.

 

[greywolf]

Even placement of load weight far from the center of mass of the bike can get the tail to wag the dog. There are a lot of variables. There's nothing like getting spit off by a tank slapper at triple digits to make a person check them as well as possible.

 

[marku]

14k - smart to adjust

I have about 14k on my Wee and have no ill riding effects (never been able find any movement from grasps and pull method shown in manual on any of my bikes.

I am not sure whether I should check out and adjust mine now given new bearings may have seated even with no issues showing up. I would expect if I do adjust it properly that after that it would go many years.

Is it worth it for me to even bother with the adjustment at this point?

 

[greywolf]

Doing this level of check is easy enough. How can I tell if the steering bearings are loose?

 

[Black Lab]

Guys, decel wobble is complicated. Lots of things bear on it.

Rich, I understand your comments and the validity that they have.

I believe that this motorcycle was designed to carry the weight of a rider, a passenger, side cases and a top case; that are all packed with gear.

I also believe that this motorcycle was designed to operated with a host of different brand tires mounted on it as well. (Personally, I have mounted seven different brands of tires on my wheel rims.).

I DO know that excessive weight, mounted towards the rear of the bike, CAN cause the wobble phenomenon. This does need to be monitored by the riders who have installed the larger Givi topcases and have filled them!

In taking into consideration the multitude of of riders who weigh differently, the different bike setups, (suspension considerations, cases, and gear packed into them), and the types of tires mounted up, there seems to be one common denominator; Deceleration Wobble.

I believe that the tension on the stem bearings, set at the factory is too loose. There are just far too many comments about "Wee Wobble" to not consider this. The wobble is present on old versions of the bike, as well as brand new versions too, (no worn tires.).

To tighten up the stem bearings until there is a distinct "firmness" to the compressing nut, then backing that nut off no more then a half of a turn, is a very reliable method to obtain a "starting point" for stem bearing adjustments.

I feel that, if riders are experiencing Deceleration Wobble, the stem bearings are the FIRST place to start resolving the issue, (if the rider cares to!), before throwing money at tires and other devices like steering dampeners. (And no, I am not saying that steering dampeners are a waste of money!)

What I am suggesting is, that a rider go to the "epicenter" of the symptom, (the stem bearings), check that out first, BEFORE moving to the other areas of their motorcycles to find a solution.

B.L.

 

[greywolf]

My Conti tires, and only the Contis (I never had a Tourance), wobbled worst at around 40mph. It mattered not whether the speed was steady, accelerating or decelerating. The closer the speed was to 40mph, the worse the wobble was. Yes, a steering stabilizer will prevent a tank slapper, not a mild wobble.