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Discussion Starter #21
I keep the oil level up, and the bike typically is in the 4-4500 rpm range. It does have led headlights, so the electrical load is probably less than stock. I went with the Ricks Motorsport this time. The Suzuki one didn't last very long, and it is $200 more than the Ricks piece now. I did have the original r/r fail last year. lt was replaced under recall, so maybe that helped shorten the life of the stator.
 

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I keep the oil level up, and the bike typically is in the 4-4500 rpm range.
Man, you are missing out... all the fun on the 650 is up around 7-8K RPM! Don't be afraid to wring it out.

The stator is cooled by oil splashing around behind the left engine cover so keeping the oil level up may help, nobody really knows for sure though.

It does have led headlights, so the electrical load is probably less than stock.
Unfortunately, that is not how it works. The generator uses permanent magnets, it never shuts off and is putting out 100% power at whatever RPM the motor is turning. So that power has to go somewhere and the OEM R/R is just a giant variable resistance load (simplifying here) that changes with RPM so that on average the generator output = bike loads + R/R load + a little to charge the battery. By switching to LEDs, at a given RPM, all you have done made the R/R load higher since the generator output is the same. The electrical advantage of the LED lights is that it frees up the power that was going to the headlights for other devices such as heated gear or more lights instead.

A series R/R isn't a variable load but rapidly "disconnects" the stator from the circuit to match the generator output to the bike loads. The net effect is the current in the stator wires is lower so they don't run as hot and the insulation does not breakdown and short out so quickly. In my judgement, by design with a shunt R/R, the stator insulation is a wear item like tires, chains, sprockets, etc.

I went with the Ricks Motorsport this time. The Suzuki one didn't last very long, and it is $200 more than the Ricks piece now.
The track record on non-OEM stators is worse than OEM stators, according to reports here and elsewhere, which is why I recommend the OEM stator.

I did have the original r/r fail last year. lt was replaced under recall, so maybe that helped shorten the life of the stator.
You may have gotten a defective stator or the mechanic knicked the insulation during install which led to the quick failure. The 60, 60, 18 VAC phase readings seems to suggest some kind of damage to one of the windings. You can a avoid this by doing the work yourself and being careful not to bang or scrape the stator during installation.

Some riders seem to be snake bit when it comes to stator failure. One theory is that they have a rotor with stronger than average magnets. There must be some variance on magnet strength and with stronger magnets the stator is pushing higher than average amps thus running hotter than generators with weaker magets so the stators don't last as long. Luck of the draw.

In any case, the series R/R seems to be a fix to failing stators by changing the way voltage is controlled and the best odds seems to come by pairing it with a new OEM stator.
 
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Discussion Starter #23
Replaced the stator tonight, right back to 13.9 volts at idle. I can see the burnt area on the old stator. Looks like next project is a series R/R.
 

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Rather than begin another thread, I'll insert a question concerning the charge system about my bike here. Recently I installed a Signal Dynamics Heads Up voltage monitor on my bike. I tapped into wires leading from the OEM heated grip connector that I use as a switched source for a power port. When started cold I get a steady green light (12.9 - 15.1V) at idle after I quickly bump the throttle. The problem begins as the bike gets up to operating temp. I get a steady red light (12.1 - 12.6V) when I pull in the clutch and roll off the throttle to slow or stop. It goes green again once RPMs pick up to accelerate. The issue is amplified if the fan kicks on and begins to draw current, meaning that the light goes from green to red and back to green at higher RPMs.

A couple of years ago I repositioned and JB welded the magnets which had slipped. I also replaced the stator with a rebuilt one from Custom Rewind. I haven't pulled the cover off to look at the stator and I honestly don't think this is the issue. Could this possibly be a weak or failing R/R?
 

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What is the voltage offset when measuring directly at the battery?


Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk
Thanks for that. After doing some measurements at the battery when the bike was cold before start, cold after start, at operating temp, and at operating temp with the fan running, it appears the charge system is working fine. Apparently there is not a good connection where I tapped off for the monitor because what it indicates and what I'm reading at the battery are disparate by a pretty wide margin. Especially when the bike is up to operating temp.

For example, when the bike is up to operating temp and the fan is running, the voltage monitor is blinking red which indicates a voltage below 12V. However, what I'm reading at the battery is 12.74 (it climbs up above 14V when the fan kicks off). Even when I put the revs up to 5k in neutral, the light continues to blink red when the fan is running. But if the motor is under load (riding), it will go green around 3k. Seems a little weird but at least I know the battery is charging.

So the next step is to check my connections or find a more accurate point to connect the monitor.

Again, thanks for the info. It's good to know the magnets and stator are good.
 

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With the 12.74 and 14 measurements at the battery, I'd remove the battery and go have it tested. They can test good and still be weak, so I proactively replace mine every 4 years. The battery terminals are prone to corrosion and loosening and require yearly cleaning and tightening.

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For example, when the bike is up to operating temp and the fan is running, the voltage monitor is blinking red which indicates a voltage below 12V. However, what I'm reading at the battery is 12.74 (it climbs up above 14V when the fan kicks off). Even when I put the revs up to 5k in neutral, the light continues to blink red when the fan is running. But if the motor is under load (riding), it will go green around 3k. Seems a little weird but at least I know the battery is charging.
I don't know exactly what the current draw of the fan is, but I do know that the fan is not supposed to be running when the bike is moving. There should be sufficient airflow over the radiator from the passing air.

So my gut feeling is that your 3k scenario is actually the situation where the fan is NOT running. At least not running under its own power - it could be driven by the passing air. This means the voltmeter is now the only component drawing power from that circuit, and it should give you an accurate reading. With the bike stationary, threatening to overheat and thus the fan kicking in, the fan now draws a significant amount of power from that circuit, which lowers the voltage in that particular circuit. So that gives you the red light.

Anyway, now that you know what's going on you could just leave it like it is. Because your voltmeter seems to be accurate under normal riding conditions (fan off). If you ever do see a red light, just check if it's because the fan is running (in which case everything is normal) or not (in which case you do have a problem).
 

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I don't know exactly what the current draw of the fan is, but I do know that the fan is not supposed to be running when the bike is moving. There should be sufficient airflow over the radiator from the passing air.

So my gut feeling is that your 3k scenario is actually the situation where the fan is NOT running. At least not running under its own power - it could be driven by the passing air. This means the voltmeter is now the only component drawing power from that circuit, and it should give you an accurate reading. With the bike stationary, threatening to overheat and thus the fan kicking in, the fan now draws a significant amount of power from that circuit, which lowers the voltage in that particular circuit. So that gives you the red light.

Anyway, now that you know what's going on you could just leave it like it is. Because your voltmeter seems to be accurate under normal riding conditions (fan off). If you ever do see a red light, just check if it's because the fan is running (in which case everything is normal) or not (in which case you do have a problem).
You're right. As long as it shows proper recharge voltage while riding, that's really all that matters.
 

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You need to test the power consumption of that fan.

The consumption shold be hardly noticeable.

A bad battery can give you bad numbers too.
 
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agreed, fan kicking on definitely shouldn't drive system into discharge. It's a small part of base load when active.

FWIW I regard the OEM Suzi stators as junk and I think you're better off having one rewound (probably Custom Rewind, though there may be someone else doing them, maybe you could even do it yourself) vs. buying another.

I bought my Vee at ~22k miles, and by a few months later it was obvious something was super wrong w/charging. tl;dr is that putting the rotor magnets back in place, plus a series R/R (SH 847) did not stop a new Suzi stator from burning itself over the next year. I had that stator rebuilt by Custom Rewind, and my charging system has been 100% reliable ever since (it'll be 3 years this December).

So if you have stator troubles, I wouldn't bother replacing it with either an aftermarket or Suzi OEM stator. Get it rebuilt by Custom Rewind.

Series R/R is still a worthwhile upgrade if you don't mind spending the coin. IIRC that's the exact R/R Suzi switched to for the second-gen Vee.
 

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Latest and greatest OEM stators are not junk, have yet to hear of a single failure of anyone who had the recall done or installed the latest part numbers. Suzuki had a legitimate issue it sounds like, and it appears to have been fixed, install a series R/R like the new 1000/1050 has and likely never have another burn out. The old 1000's magnet issue in the rotor was a bigger issue than bad stators, of course since 2014 the 1000's have encapsulated magnets "series R/R" and I haven't heard a single stator failure for ANY of the 14-current big Vee's. ;)
 

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I bought my last new Suzi stator in January 2017, part # 32101-06G1. Output was declining by July-ish. Conveniently, this was past their 6-month warranty on electrical parts.

2012 MY may be different. Suzuki has done nothing to address problems with the earlier Vee stators, as far as I can tell. Partzilla still shows the same part # cited above, except the price has gone way up. I paid $260 and change for that OEM stator in January 2017. Today it's $343.81. Ouch.

Correction: Partzilla is still listing the 32101-06G1 as stator for 2012 Vee. Same one that self-destructed on me twice. I wouldn't take the risk, but hey, it's your money.
 

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Rewinds most certainly haven't fared any better, in particular with 02-12 1000's......but hey it's your money. ;) Your stators burning out in no way can just be contributed to the stator itself, you have something else likely going on which is causing this.
 

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I replaced every other part of the charging system. Battery included. Rewound stator has lasted 4x as long as OEM so far. That speaks for itself.
 

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The fan doesn't freely spin for very long when spun by hand. There's a slight resistance. I replaced the stator with one from Custom Rewind a few years ago, however, the battery is a few years old as well. It has required a recharge a couple to times to start the bike after a 6 month drought of riding. Perhaps that will be the next system replacement. I'll look into the series R/R.
 
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