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Discussion Starter #1

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Well....no SMIDSY would not. But, riding at that speed where there is a threat of cross traffic from roads and parking lots is not wise. Lane choice on the left would have been a bit better, but still way too much speed for the conditions present.

You have to ride like there will be a car popping out from behind each of those obstacles(parked cars & trucks) at each opportunity.

Sorry, but those riders made a mistake and it almost got them killed.
 

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Yes, their lane positioning was bad. I always move around on my lane to whichever position I think will give me the greatest amount of visual exposure and conspicuity.
 
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It's difficult to imagine how the car driver might have avoided that, apart from waiting for the traffic to clear enough to see oncoming traffic.

The two riders were not riding defensively at all and they were travelling at a fair lick, in the righthand lane where they could neither see nor be seen. The car had to at least put its nose out in order for the driver to see whether or not the lane was clear and that would have pulled them down anyway.
 

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yeah lane to their left under those conditions would be a better choice and give more time to react from threats coming from their right. glad they survived and hope the car driver faces serious consequences.
 

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Got to go with Motor7 on this. Almost exactly what happened to me except at a lower speed - Car popped out of a line of traffic right in front of me.

Riders were moving too fast for the circumstances and for their road position. Any cross traffic would have been an isse.
 

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The driver easily could have nosed out...instead of darting.

Yes left lane positioning would have been better and perhaps less speed but that was a dart by the car driver without regard to traffic and had it been a Mack truck she would be dead.
 

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There is a chance that somebody waved her through as well. If somebody left a gap and the road was clear they could have done that. The bikes were travelling fairly quickly, and may not have been visible to the "waver" at the time.

Coops.
 
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Discussion Starter #9 (Edited)
Dont know where some of you get the view on speed, the car they passed was doing 35-37 Kph THATS KPH (22 MPH) when they passed it, and they weren't going that much faster than it, still well below the speed limit for the area. Here is a thought, if the car driver can not see, then dont turn. In my part of the world, she is a very clear :turn in the face of oncoming traffic" or "Drive without due care and attention" breach. FFS I really don't get how anyone could think its the riders fault. I also note that the left lane may have had cars parked in it, the road is a clearway in morning and afternoon peak hours but not when the incident occurred.

Certainly it would have helped if the driver had have moved slowly. Point of the matter is - there are stupid drivers everywhere, be aware.
 

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The female driver is 23. Almost certainly she'd be on a P1 or P2 provisional licence ( for those from the UK, that's not a learner's permit). Being on Ps, she is very likely to be uninsured because the cost of insurance would be very high - probably more than the car is worth.

I hope the bike riders were insured
 

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Dont know where some of you get the view on speed, the car they passed was doing 35-37 Kph THATS KPH (22 MPH) when they passed it, and they weren't going that much faster than it, still well below the speed limit for the area.
The numerical speed or whether or not it's within the speed limit is irrelevant. At the speed they were travelling, given their proximity to the opposing traffic, they were not able to anticipate and respond to hazards.
Here is a thought, if the car driver can not see, then dont turn. In my part of the world, she is a very clear :turn in the face of oncoming traffic" or "Drive without due care and attention" breach.
Agreed.

FFS I really don't get how anyone could think its the riders fault.
...
Point of the matter is - there are stupid drivers everywhere, be aware.
The second sentence is the reason.
 

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Saphena beat me too it and is spot on.

The driver of the car was in the wrong...that's a gimmie. Riders must ride defensively at all times, those guys were not. Simply put, the riders were not following the lugnut rule....whoever has the most lugnuts wins.
 

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That's because we don't use the term "lugnuts". :kiss:
I,ve heard them called "Acorn Nuts" they are the ones car drivers respect ;)
ie the preverbial Mack Truck would have Acorn Nuts
(due to the domed shape)
 

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Discussion Starter #16
I continue to be amazed at the attitude that the riders are at fault. Yes they could have done other things like have someone walk down the road in front of them with a red flag. But at the end of the day they were, from what I can see, riding lawfully and reasonably and a dipstick pulled out in front of them.

Thank goodness for the dash cam, otherwise the story from the driver would have been - the bikes were doing a million mile an hour. Ask me how I know this.
 

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I continue to be amazed at the attitude that the riders are at fault.
I don't think that anyone is suggesting that the collision wasn't legally the fault of the car driver.

I think what's happening here is that a bunch of motorcylists are reviewing an incident with motorcyclist's eyes and, speaking at least for myself, I watched a pair of riders behave in a way which instantly triggered alarm bells. At the end of the day, who bears legal responsibility is only a minor matter, mostly concerned with mere money, whereas what those two riders did was to put themselves, their bodies, in harm's way. They are very lucky that they walked away and weren't killed outright.
 

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Standard dashcam video response,clear vision of an avoidable accident/incident, instantly many replies of "But if [insert dribble here] " or "If I was riding this[ more dribble] and if there is a pushbike in view then they get all the blame,I have no idea why?

Yes there is the possibility that the riders could have been riding differently,none of us,not one get it right every minute of the day.
I refuse to make a judgement on the possibilities that another rider woulda coulda shoulda been okay if they had........
It could be any of us at any bloody time.
Glad they weren't killed or handicapped afterward for their sake,their families sake and for my own sake.
There, but for the Grace of God, go any of us.
 

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Discussion Starter #19
I watched a pair of riders behave in a way which instantly triggered alarm bells.
Yes I can see how you heard those bells, they were riding below the speed limit in the area in a reasonable non aggressive manner moving ahead of the traffic.

Rarely have I heard such sanctimonious self righteous waffle, rarely.

I am seriously amazed at the drugs you are taking, seriously amazed. They are good, I want some.
 

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Pretty straightforward stuff:

The driver is completely and totally at fault legally.

On my bike in situations like that I slow down lots and try and position myself to help see threats as much as possible.

..Tom
 
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