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Discussion Starter #1
Looking for some serious knowledge here about how Traction Control works.

Last Saturday, we replaced my brother's V2 (2016) front sprocket from the stock 17 to a smaller 16 teeth. The bike feels smoother on low speeds, plus acceleration feels stronger. So far, we are happy with the results.
However, when the bike is set to Traction Control 2 (most sensitive setting) the TC light will turn on frequently, with the smallest of bump in a paved road.

Trying to explain this issue, I've considered this:
- Speed sensor is in the front wheel.
- The computer is always monitoring speed + RPM and current gear.

Let's say the bike with the OEM 17t sprocket in 2nd gear at 3000 RPM is supposed to move at 50 km/h. (example figures only).
With a smaller front sprocket, (16t) the engine must be at 3200 RPM to match the 50 km/h.
(The same would happen if you installed a smaller rear wheel)

My guess is that the computer might consider the higher RPM as a rear wheel spin and TC is activated.

Your thoughts will be very appreciated.
 

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That is interesting? A couple of points tho, the TC monitors both front and rear wheel and compares them continuously. The computor knows which gear the bike is in based on revs vs speed (measured from both monitored wheels?) whereas in the previous model the speed was read from the gearbox output shaft.
So it might be struggling to be adaptive to the smaller sprocket?
 

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I didn't notice any difference in TC on mine. 4000 km's done on 16t sprocket.
 

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The explanation sound reasonable. And not to hijack, but what are the advantages of going smaller on the front sprocket on a 1000cc bike? Are you guys trying to get more top end out of it? Better fuel mileage? Just curious.
 

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The explanation sound reasonable. And not to hijack, but what are the advantages of going smaller on the front sprocket on a 1000cc bike? Are you guys trying to get more top end out of it? Better fuel mileage? Just curious.
Going lower on the front lowers gearing. So, low speed maneuvering is the main advantage. Also, you get to make use of 6th gear more. Previously, the only time I got into 6th was when on the interstate. Now, I can cruise secondary highways at 60-65 mph in 6th.
There's no noticeable change in mpg unless you're frequently cruising at >85 mph, where you might see a slight decline.
 

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The vid below is why I wanted lower gearing. Fast forward to 12:00 minutes. At 12:10, in the steep loose rocks with TC at 1, you can hear the motor cutting out. The TC was turned off soon after that. Several places thereafter, like at about 15:40, you can hear the engine rev up when the back wheel spins. Having TC on was a complete detriment when trying to climb up steep loose stuff.

I noticed the TC kick in more with the smaller front sprocket, particularly in mode 2. Then even more so after switching from stock tire to the Mitas E-07.

 

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Going lower on the front lowers gearing. So, low speed maneuvering is the main advantage. Also, you get to make use of 6th gear more. Previously, the only time I got into 6th was when on the interstate. Now, I can cruise secondary highways at 60-65 mph in 6th.
There's no noticeable change in mpg unless you're frequently cruising at >85 mph, where you might see a slight decline.
Wow,

I am forgetting simple things. I was thinking it was raising the gear ratio, hence my question. I even did this on my Triumph a few years ago and didn't remember that I went down a tooth, not up. Thanks.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Guys - guys - guys

Any other thought on the traction control issue?
 

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There was a few people reporting similar things on the already existing thread about going down one tooth on the front sprocket.

Thread title is: " V2 + 16t = true love"

It is contrary to what I understand of how Traction Control but if that is what is happening I'd like to understand why Suzuki did it that way. It seems way too complicated and unnecessary.

..Tom
 

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Really obvious. Torque at the rear wheel is up ~6% and that's ripping the rear loose.

Fixes.
Gentler on the throttle.
Run a gear higher
Run at lower rpm
Find a tire that's at least 6% more grippy

There's nothing wrong with the TC, you are simply slipping more. I've ridden with GS's, KTM's DL 1000's on my 650, on anything like a decent surface the DL has better acceleration simply because it isn't continually spinning up the rear.
 

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Really obvious. Torque at the rear wheel is up ~6% and that's ripping the rear loose.



Fixes.

Gentler on the throttle.

Run a gear higher

Run at lower rpm

Find a tire that's at least 6% more grippy



There's nothing wrong with the TC, you are simply slipping more. I've ridden with GS's, KTM's DL 1000's on my 650, on anything like a decent surface the DL has better acceleration simply because it isn't continually spinning up the rear.


This is not true. I went up one tooth on the counter sprocket and it's made the TC go haywire. I know exactly what they're talking about and it isn't tire spin.
 

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I went Two up in the rear, and I'm not having this issue. Its not quite as aggressive as one down up front, so maybe that's what's making the difference. Enough that's its noticeable but enough to effect the TC. I would Highly recommend it over one tooth down in the front.
 

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This is not true. I went up one tooth on the counter sprocket and it's made the TC go haywire. I know exactly what they're talking about and it isn't tire spin.
I'm completely perplexed about this. A lot of us (including myself) have noticed no change in TC with different sprockets (16t for me), while others have had these issues. Is there anyone at Suzuki that could be contacted to get a definitive answer on exactly how the traction control works and what sensors it uses? And could maybe shed some light on why supposedly the same model bikes are different?
 

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I'm completely perplexed about this. A lot of us (including myself) have noticed no change in TC with different sprockets (16t for me), while others have had these issues. Is there anyone at Suzuki that could be contacted to get a definitive answer on exactly how the traction control works and what sensors it uses? And could maybe shed some light on why supposedly the same model bikes are different?


I don't know and would like to find out, but tomorrow it's being removed and replaced with the OEM one so I won't have this issue anymore. The swap wasn't worth it for me and only caused TC to act up as well as make me run at higher RPM.
 

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I spoke to a guy that works on European bikes not Suzuki's, he said the TC monitors the difference in speed between the front and back wheels it also monitors the motor so it knows how far to drop the power and where to put it back to when the traction is regained, he believes the changing of sprockets can have no effect on the TC.

I have always been able to get my TC to flash, on poor roads it was the back wheel braking traction and when the grip was better the front wheel would lift, after fitting the 16t I did not need to try quite as hard to get the flash but it still took some effort.

After setting up my suspension to my liking it was even harder to get the TC to flash, since I got my suspenders the way I want them I have turned off my TC & ABS, I don't like them interfering with my ridding enjoyment.

I would suggest if you think you have a problem you ride the bike with a pillion passenger, the extra weight will give the rear wheel more traction and help keep the front planted on the ground this would tell you if it is over sensitive or you are getting a true lack of traction on the front or rear.

I would suggest spending some time on your set up to ensure you are getting the best traction available.
 

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Sounds plausible. Good info. Thanks for sharing. Feeling better about my upcoming 16T install.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

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So far as I understand it... There is a small metal disc with evenly spaced square holes on the front tire and the another on the back tire that allow the computer to monitor tire spin/slippage. Some have reported issues with their traction control based on these discs being bent or loose or out of alignment with the pickup device. (I suppose that the pickup device could also be loose or not properly aligned to the disc.) Is it possible that something got bumped and or partially unplugged during the process of changing the sprocket?

I thought that the gear indicator gets its information from the transmission internals. Sad to say that I have been completely stopped and idling with the clutch pulled and it still read "4" so I highly doubt it is interpolating gear position by rpm and vehicle speed.

I am no expert by any means on the specific TC system on these bikes, but the ECU should be able to get all the information it needs from the wheel sensors to detect & engage. It potentially uses the TPS info and maybe additional engine management info to help it react appropriately to a wheel slip, but it could also just blindly react according to a pre set curve. The traction control in several of my cars didn't care what you were doing...if it slipped the throttle was just reduced to a very low preset position - very annoying.

I have never experienced a TC response from my Vee2, so perhaps I am just blowing wind...
 

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I don't know what all the TC is looking at. I would have thought is was a rotational speed difference between front & rear wheels, but on pavement with no slippage the TC still cut in when set at TC2 and using the 16t sprocket.

With my 16t sprocket it works fine on TC1.
 

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I don't know what all the TC is looking at. I would have thought is was a rotational speed difference between front & rear wheels, but on pavement with no slippage the TC still cut in when set at TC2 and using the 16t sprocket.

With my 16t sprocket it works fine on TC1.
Another thought...with the 16t sprocket, 6th gear rpm are about the same as 5th with the stock 17t. So it seems as far as the bike is concerned, it would be the same. It would be an interesting experiment for those who are having problems, if you go back to the stock sprocket do you experience the same TC problems if you only top out in 5th gear? Seems that should be indistinguishable to the bike.
 
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