Series type vs Mosfet R/R
Greywolf might be interested and inclined to chime in...:yesnod:
Interesting, wonder if a series type R/R would be better than the Mosfet R/R for our bikes
Voltage regulator rectifier permananent magnet alternator
The Mosfet is still a shunt type... dumping excess load to ground, still causing stress on the Stator... However, the series type (see link above) has the advantage of shutting down the charing system when there is no load on the battery... As I understand it, when there is no demand on the battery, the voltage is shunted directly to the ground on the O.E. or Fet style shunt type R/R. In the Series style, the voltage regulator turns the charging system off. Therefore reducing stator current and thus heat build up...
Richard
Interesting, wonder if a series type R/R would be better than the Mosfet R/R for our bikes
Voltage regulator rectifier permananent magnet alternator
The Mosfet is still a shunt type... dumping excess load to ground, still causing stress on the Stator... However, the series type (see link above) has the advantage of shutting down the charing system when there is no load on the battery... As I understand it, when there is no demand on the battery, the voltage is shunted directly to the ground on the O.E. or Fet style shunt type R/R. In the Series style, the voltage regulator turns the charging system off. Therefore reducing stator current and thus heat build up...
Richard
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Perhaps I worded it poorly or not quite understnding how it works... found this PDF explaining it better
http://www.posplayr.100megsfree3.com/FH012AA_Charging/RR_Tutorial.pdf
Richard
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I just rode 12 hours in heavy rain. I'm not up for learning anything. I think the series type does what I though the MOSFET did but it doesn't. At least my MOSFET R/R has its excess oil cooled, holds output levels nicely and puts out more voltage at idle.
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Whole lot of gobbeltygook. Nothing in the sales link tells how it works, and damn little in the other link says anything that makes any sense. It appears that they're opening one leg of the 3-phase alternator to regulate voltage. That might work--my Volvo ran a long time with one phase dead on the alternator until one very cold morning when I had to check why the battery was weak. Only page 8 of the "tutorial" shows anything of interest. The last part doesn't show how any of it relates to voltage regulation, and it's just sloppy using Y, Wye, and Star interchangeably (they are the same) in the same document, but so what, we do not have delta-wound stators.
Show me some real world info about steady voltage regulation and temperatures in the stator vs. external load.
Show me some real world info about steady voltage regulation and temperatures in the stator vs. external load.
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I was finally shown a good info page. The FH012 is a shunt type rather than opening the circuit. ƒJƒ^ƒ�ƒO”Ì”„�b“d‘•�»•i�b�»•i�î•ñ�b�V“dŒ³�H‹ÆŠ”Ž®‰ïŽÐ
I don't know how it manages to run so cool, but it does.
I don't know how it manages to run so cool, but it does.
My understanding....
Shunt directs excess voltage/current to the ground of the system.
Mosfets are faster and have much less resistance then the SCRs of the stock Suzuki unit. Because the mosfet has much lower internal resistance it does not get hot itself.
The Shindegen unit also has a more precise controller than the stock and switches the mosfets on/off with better voltage control.
A series regulator INTERRUPTS the voltage coming from the stator. Voltage in excessive of the design say 14 volts causes the regulator to "disconnect" from the stator so NO more current flows. A light dimmer works like this. MY 1/2 *ssed research exposed that the windings of a stator to use this type of regulator is supposedly different but I don't know why.
My conclusion was we are kinda stuck with the general compromise that the design is. The obvious limiting the additional loads that will lower voltage, increase current in heat in the stator makes sense. I submit that full lower viscosity oil will help cool the stator. IF a R/R shorts out (SCRs fail and go conductive) then stator death will quickly follow. If your magnets move then you will have less power to run the bike but other parts may not be affected. Once again i believe full lighter oil will help cool and preserve these components. Even the insulation, instillation of these components will be a variable where some of us will luck out and others no.
If I burn a stator then I will also change to the shindegen too. In the mean time I am putting in a headlight interrupter for when I am using my Gerbing AND making sure the battery is young and healthy.
Shunt directs excess voltage/current to the ground of the system.
Mosfets are faster and have much less resistance then the SCRs of the stock Suzuki unit. Because the mosfet has much lower internal resistance it does not get hot itself.
The Shindegen unit also has a more precise controller than the stock and switches the mosfets on/off with better voltage control.
A series regulator INTERRUPTS the voltage coming from the stator. Voltage in excessive of the design say 14 volts causes the regulator to "disconnect" from the stator so NO more current flows. A light dimmer works like this. MY 1/2 *ssed research exposed that the windings of a stator to use this type of regulator is supposedly different but I don't know why.
My conclusion was we are kinda stuck with the general compromise that the design is. The obvious limiting the additional loads that will lower voltage, increase current in heat in the stator makes sense. I submit that full lower viscosity oil will help cool the stator. IF a R/R shorts out (SCRs fail and go conductive) then stator death will quickly follow. If your magnets move then you will have less power to run the bike but other parts may not be affected. Once again i believe full lighter oil will help cool and preserve these components. Even the insulation, instillation of these components will be a variable where some of us will luck out and others no.
If I burn a stator then I will also change to the shindegen too. In the mean time I am putting in a headlight interrupter for when I am using my Gerbing AND making sure the battery is young and healthy.
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Because it's rated at 50 amp instead of our 30-35 amp oem?
The problem with series regulators is that the generator of the type used in bikes continues trying to generate constant power. P = VI, power is ~constant so reduce the amps with a series regulator and the voltage will rise.
You can series regulate, but the voltage in the coils will be much much higher, probably resulting in the coil insulation breaking down.
The best approach is the field controlled alternator of the type usually found in cars where the primary regulation is done by controlling the amount of power produced at the source.
The best we could probably do is a hybrid, the MOSFET's can in theory be switched on and off (unlike SCR's), so the regulator could series regulate and switch to shunt when the voltage got too high. You'd still run cooler but at somewhat higher average coil voltages, but you could at least limit the coil coltage to avoid breakdown.
(That may be how the MOSFET reg. actually works).
Pete
You can series regulate, but the voltage in the coils will be much much higher, probably resulting in the coil insulation breaking down.
The best approach is the field controlled alternator of the type usually found in cars where the primary regulation is done by controlling the amount of power produced at the source.
The best we could probably do is a hybrid, the MOSFET's can in theory be switched on and off (unlike SCR's), so the regulator could series regulate and switch to shunt when the voltage got too high. You'd still run cooler but at somewhat higher average coil voltages, but you could at least limit the coil coltage to avoid breakdown.
(That may be how the MOSFET reg. actually works).
Pete
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Stator Failure
Having had my stator go out at around 50,000km somewhere between Cairns and the Daintree, I am enamoured of anything that will avoid a recurrence. Wondering if the equipment has improved on the 2012 model (Wee).
At least if I had an ammeter, or a charging failure warning (F1), I would not have bothered to get a new battery, which subsequently failed itself at 100,000km. By then someone else owned the bike.
So, as I understand it, the Wee comes with a crap R/R that is likely to precipitate stator failure, but for around $100 (call that $50 if factory fitted) the problem would go away?
Annoying on an otherwise VERY reliable mount.
Having had my stator go out at around 50,000km somewhere between Cairns and the Daintree, I am enamoured of anything that will avoid a recurrence. Wondering if the equipment has improved on the 2012 model (Wee).
At least if I had an ammeter, or a charging failure warning (F1), I would not have bothered to get a new battery, which subsequently failed itself at 100,000km. By then someone else owned the bike.
So, as I understand it, the Wee comes with a crap R/R that is likely to precipitate stator failure, but for around $100 (call that $50 if factory fitted) the problem would go away?
Annoying on an otherwise VERY reliable mount.
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Greywolf looked it up, not a MOSFET, just better electronics, rather than just clipping the peaks it's measuring average voltage and adjusting the "on" time.
The original "bike" R/R is pretty damned crude and it wouldn't take a lot to improve on that.
Pete
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