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Discussion Starter #1
Yes, I did some research . the "secondary removal" threads all turned out to be a bunch of girls bickering. I would like a straight forward answer and possibly a link of the "how-to" on taking them out if i should go that route.

pros and cons of taking the secondaries out? I understand this can cause a lean condition in a specific RPM range, but my bike will be re-mapped and dyno tuned after they are taken out. My dyno guy had trouble getting a good reading today and he thinks they might be sticking. gonna take a peek at them tonight, but i'm wondering what the consensus is from the gurus.

thanks in advance.
 

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Leave them in and ensure they are properly adjusted.....trust me.:fineprint: If you want a bit more performance, go with a race exhaust, K&N filter and a PCIII or PCV.
 

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Simple logic anything that impedes the flow of the air reduces the flow and therefore the amount of air in the cylinder

If large throttles are snapped open the result is 1st a pop of air and second the air flow as in speed of the current almost stops. In carbs that was disastrous as its the flow that draw fuel into the air stream. The reaction is similar in FI as the computer takes a moment to calculate the amount of fuel needed now.

We know it as BOG

This squirt of fuel usually gets some unburnt gas passed the cylinder and causes excess pollution (be nice).

So in our FI system both you and the ecu are running the throttles plural.
You snap it open and then the computer opens the secondaries (really primaries) at a rate that creates acceleration without bog and less pollution.

The computer also dampens all throttle twitches, Sneakily you could say you have smart fly by wire as it is really running the throttle but you have your throttle to shut it off if it goes crazy.

Someday you will hear of a crash where the rider states he shut of his throttle on a true fly by wire but the computer hick coughed and kept it open. but I digress

If you wanted super power I am afraid you bought the wrong horse. I also think the throttle bodies are huge and oversized and the tiny amount of restriction they pose doesn;t change ultimate power 1 whit.

If you remove them and you are already at power rpms and you are applying and moderating power near wide open then you controlling the only throttles will eliminate the small lag between your throttle and the computer responding with the secondaries.

I one the other hand will be spending some effort in seeing if I can truly balance them before I do a TBS and see if I can pick up a couple of MPGs and smoothness.

enjoy
 

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Removing the secondaries means removing the throttle plates only -- you leave the throttle bodies and the secondary throttle shaft in place. There are two small screws holding in each plate. Use a JIS screwdriver, or you're likely to strip the screw heads.

The reasons why it's a bad idea to remove the secondary throttle plates are thoroughly explained above.

It's your bike. Do whatever you want.
 

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Hand control is 100% better than secondary control,,,
If you are new to the throttle leave them in,, BUT come on people,
Think why are they even there, Thats right , So you decide,,,
I have taken mine out and put them back in,,, To me its a no brainier, Leave them out,,,, My 2&1/2 cents,,,,

Mike
 

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Discussion Starter #6
if properly tuned to make up for the lean condition and pending my proper throttle control, will removing the secondaries present any mechanical issues?
 

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,
Think why are they even there, Thats right , So you decide,,,
I have taken mine out and put them back in,,, To me its a no brainier, Leave them out,,,, My 2&1/2 cents,,,,

Mike
I think they're there because the engineers at Suzuki who designed the FI system think the system needs them. But what do they know?

Rip 'em out! With enough jacking around with a PC-III etc. you can probably get it running ok again. You probably ought to beat a section of pipe through the exhaust baffles while you're at it, and cut some holes in the airbox too.
 

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The SUZI engineers have to deal with EPA etc. Many times that is contrary to performance aspects. This is espescially true of big jugs with poor cirulation and much broad squish areas.

If you are given a mandate and a difficult engineering problem without the economics to start with a clean sheet then you make bandaids then bandaids for the bandaids.

SO some level of mods may be all to the good
 

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They also keep you from killing yourself, on a bike not designed to go fast.
 

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I have had mine out for the past 8k miles. It is more twitchy, if you want to look at it negatively, but its also a little quicker to react and get moving, if you want to look at it positively. My brother has the same year Vee as I, and I tuned them with the same settings on my Yosh box -- mine is definitely quicker to get moving. It hasn't mechanically hurt a thing.

Then again, it is a Vee -- as much as I enjoy putting it through its paces, it definitely isn't designed for high speed handling or stability. As I am getting older and not quite as worried about extracting any peak of performance, I may put mine back in next time I have it apart for service. It would be nice to be less twitchy, especially on a wet city road in the middle of morning traffic.
 

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Mine were missing when I bought the bike. Like Big-Iz said, the throttle is a bit more twitchy without them. I decided I wanted them back in. No one had any for me to acquire, so I made my own. I finally got them installed yesterday, and took it for a spin. I even zeroed out my PCIII before the test flight. Overall, I'd say it was worth putting them back in. I like how it feels now, even without having the PCIII engaged. I need to put a few more miles on it before my final judgement, but if yesterday was any indication, I'd say my "project" was worth it.
 

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I prefer having the secondary T/P's out. ATRE, no secondary T/P's, and Yosh box adjustment, my V-Strom runs flawless in all RPM ranges. I actually find it smother in the low RPM range with the secondary T/P's out.
In town in traffic I usually shift a 2500 rpm and it is smooth.
 

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I agree MACO, I have an '05 with a KN filter, staintune pipes, and PCIII. I removed my secondaries after these mods and the results are impressive, I like to rev the engine a little more than most and I found it runs smoother and is more responsive in hard accelaration and cornering. I have found none of the "twitchy" symptoms reported above. To help with high speed handling I've also installed a fork brace, race-tech springs with more aggressive valving and an ELKA rear shock which include adjustablity for length extension. I would never put the secondaries back in...I am very happy with my set up and feel the engine now runs the way it was originally designed (before they got to the throttle bodies!).
 

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How big of a project was it? Easy enough to build another set?

Mine were missing when I bought the bike. Like Big-Iz said, the throttle is a bit more twitchy without them. I decided I wanted them back in. No one had any for me to acquire, so I made my own. I finally got them installed yesterday, and took it for a spin. I even zeroed out my PCIII before the test flight. Overall, I'd say it was worth putting them back in. I like how it feels now, even without having the PCIII engaged. I need to put a few more miles on it before my final judgement, but if yesterday was any indication, I'd say my "project" was worth it.
 

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Depends on the individual and tools you have. It requires slightly more work than changing your air filter, however, there is the possibility you may strip the small phillip heads that secure the secondaries in the removal process, which then requires surgery to remove the screws (and the tools to do it). Great care also needs to be taken to prevent ANY material from dropping down the TBs from the area you are working on, regardless of whether the screws come out easy or not. Many of us have done it...its better than stock...I think its worth it...
 

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i admit
i too hace considered removing mine.. Even went to one time. But to my shock and surprise, the PO stripped one of the @#$ screws out. I tried and tried but canot get the last one out.. Anyone got a trick to removing a little stripped screw from this area? I assume it means either removing the throttly body's.. If that's the only way I will leave it alone.
 
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