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Discussion Starter #1
ok gang I'm starting to get a tad annoyed.
dl650 with just under 900 miles. changed oil twice: once at 100 mi, then at 700, using Rotella and Suzi filters.
I have encountered the upshifting false neutral four times now, always on upshift, and always between 4-5 or 5-6.
The tranny, unless I'm dreaming, is getting more 'clatter' in shifting now than when it was new. I thought they got slicker, not un-slick the more you road. On those false neutrals, she does NOT appreciate being put in gear... you have to coast to a stop or you're going to get a whole lot of grinding and unhappiness.

What needs adjusting? Has anyone had a shop address this issue?

Z
 

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I used 10-40wt this past summer and my DL shifted pretty bad,:( went to 30wt problem solved.:D Then winter hits temps 20s to 30s and she turns over a bit too slow on cold starts, so back to the 10-40wt and it shifts good.:D Now the temps here in Spokane have jumped to the 40s and 50s and it is shifting bad again.:( If I lived in Texas where the temps are moderate I would stick with straight 30wt year round. I've never owned a bike that shifted better when I used a light oil in warm weather.

Dan
 
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Switching to full synthetic oil did the trick for me. I can really feel a difference in the smoothness of shifts.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
i don't get the oil wt idea at all. 10/40 is heavier than 30.... except for about 2 minutes

I may have a real problem: these symptoms aren't going to change with oil

z
 

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Multigrade oils lose thickness faster than straight wt oils, in other words if you use a 10-30wt for 500mi then test the SUS- viscosity you'll find it has dropped to perhaps a 10-20wt. of course all oils tend to drop viscosity with normal use but multigrades drop a bit more. This is a paragraph from my old 1972 Peterson repair manual but I'm sure it would still apply today. Besides what have you got to lose but a few bucks for oil, worth a try, all I can say is it worked for me. I do still get some false neutrals when I wear my thick-toed boots versus tennis shoes.

Dan
 

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trailbuster30 said:
Multigrade oils lose thickness faster than straight wt oils, in other words if you use a 10-30wt for 500mi then test the SUS- viscosity you'll find it has dropped to perhaps a 10-20wt. of course all oils tend to drop viscosity with normal use but multigrades drop a bit more. This is a paragraph from my old 1972 Peterson repair manual but I'm sure it would still apply today. Besides what have you got to lose but a few bucks for oil, worth a try, all I can say is it worked for me. I do still get some false neutrals when I wear my thick-toed boots versus tennis shoes.

Dan
Yes, tis true multigrade oils do lose their viscosity over time, but if you're having a 10W-40 drop to a 10W-30 in 500 miles then it's time to change oils. Try Mobil 1 10W-40 or 20W-50 motorcycle oil......not cheap but works very well IMO.
 

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I agree with Paul-synthetics made the difference for me. Shifted like butter compared to before. At your next oil change try a full synthetic (not a blend) and see if you notice a difference.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
will do.

I did notice [to the point about the Mobil's] on a shadow 1100 I had: they all have a "tick". nothing dangerous its just a crankcase noise that may come from the timing chain or something. on mine [one of the two I had] it was abnormally LOUD. went through a bunch of oils with no change. then finally bit the bullet and bought the V4 Mobil 1 10/40 mc oil. I had read there was "no difference" in the motorcyc oils and the ordinary mobil 1. as it turns out, there is. higher dose of minerals, zinc and ?? is it phosphor something? anyway, it darn near stopped the tick. after that I never ran anything else

z
 
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False Neutrals

Greetings. Have you checked your clutch adjustment (assuming that there is an adjustment) My 1,000 has a hydrolic clutch and I've never checked to see if there is an adjustment at the slave cylinder.
Dave in Tennessee
st1100
dl1000
78, BMW R100/7 (for sale)
750 Norton
 

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Most motorcycle oils contain Zinc diakyl-dithiophosphate supposedly to smooth out shifting. I read at another group site where they mentioned that not enough of this additive is in the bike oils to really help improve shifting. The same ingredient in much larger proportion is in those really thick and gooey oil additives STP,Stud, etc. Some bikers ad a small amount to their oil and swear the tranny shifts smoother. Dan
 

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Discussion Starter #11
I have no idea where the article is now, but the one I read said that the mineral content helped longevity of the oil. at any rate, the theory was that otherwise good oils that have a higher PPM count of the zinc stuff were likely to give better service, and that Mobil oil was one of two or three [only ] that had enough of a diff to matter. at over 7 bucks a quart, you would hope it would do some good!
z
 

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Don't mess with the oil. The oil is not going to solve the shifting problem.
The stupid thing should run properly with any oil. I use Castrol GTX and don't have any problems. If it's not your shifting technique, meaning following up on all your shifts, than take it to the dealer. It's under warranty. The tranny is just that, noisy. It does not mean there is anything wrong. When I first got the damn bike I could have sworn the engine and tranny was made by "Kitchen Aid". My wife has a mixer that sounded just like my bike. It took me a while to get used to it and to realize that it's just the way it is.
I rode in the hot summer and some really cold weather this winter and used the same 10/40 oil. The noise level and "smoothness" stays the same, no matter the season.
Ride it hard and it all gets better. If you push it to it's limits you won't have time to dwell on the little noises.
Good Luck
 
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i agree with supertrooper; shift it like it owes you money!

one thing that always helped me to shift better was using a reverse (race) pattern i have not had any problems with my 650 so i have not tried it yet. you may have difficulty learning reverse pattern but try it and see if the problem goes away.
 

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Maybe the European bike companies understand that engine/transmission combo's need a heavier oil. A good test would be to drain the 90wt gear oil out of a manual automobile transmission and replace it with 10-40wt motor oil. Now I know they both have different additive packages but I'll bet it would be because of the difference in weight that it would shift like crap. There's got to be a happy medium. I used 3 different synthetics and none of them worked for me, it still came back to experimenting with different weights. If motorcycle-specific synthetics help improve shifting it probably would be due to the ZDP additive and not because it's a synthetic oil. In most of the bikes I've owned up until now I've used 20-50wt and had pretty good luck with it.

Dan
 

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Discussion Starter #16
bikes that have a lot of slop in the specs [air cooled old school] do great on 20/50 or thereabouts.
I got spooked on the subject when I had a shadow 1100, cause there was a little-understood issue where some of the critical oil journals were really really small, and sometimes the assembly of the top end would have a gasket just slightly misaligned that would restrict those even further. then, throw in 20/50 and run it long and hard with just a little contamination [like using a lousy fram filter or something] and then you have premature head work to do. that was the ONLY problem with that bike and was rare even still. but a mechanic who knew his stuff counseled me and basically said it ain't worth the risk. so, I stick to what the mftr suggests

my strom shifts better cold than hot, that's for sure. dunno why. it gets catchier and grindier as it gets real hot

z
 

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Some of the GM and Chrysler tranny's are specifically designed to use atf fluid, I know my '92 Saturn called for it in its transmission. The same condition existed with my V-Strom whereas it would shift good when it was cold but as it warmed up it would get very notchy. Actually the first weight oil I tried was 40wt Penzoil and I only used that weight to confirm that I didn't have a mechanical problem and that it was the oil shearing down. You could definitely tell that there was a heavier oil in the motor since the idle speed dropped almost 200rpm, but you know what, shifting problem gone. I only used the stuff for a day or two before dropping down to the 30wt. It's been smooth shifting ever since. The thing that really bothered me about the shifting when I first got the bike was the annoying fifth-to-sixth gear thwack or clunk sound that I'm glad to say is finally gone.

Dan
 

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Discussion Starter #19
yeah, i don't get the 'thwack' you speak of, but is this my imagination: seems like there is a longer throw from 5 to 6 than any other spacing, except maybe 1-2, but then I don't use 1 most of the time... its irrelevant.

z
 

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I remember reading one of the early reviews of the bike and they commented on the long throw for the shifter. I wonder if the bushing where the linkage attaches to the shift lever could be moved towards the toe to shorten the movement necessary to shift. If I continue to miss shifts I may try that. I'd better buy a new shift lever first though, so when I screw it up I can still put it back to original in order to ride!
 
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