Alright so during my crying above, bike cooled down while off. Now it's up to temp and no more drip. Crossing my fingers the universe heard my cries...
Patience Officially Gone With Water Pump
So a few months ago I had a slow speed tipover on the right side, I'll save the story for another day, and I thought the bike was OK sans a blinker, and some scuffing on plastic and the crash bars. Bars were misaligned too but I got that straightened out.
When I addressed all these things I thought the DL was ready to go again. I was surprised to see on cold start that suddenly coolant was weeping out of the weep hole. To clarify, no part of the actual engine was hit during the tipover. It stayed dripping consistently, and I did a short ride to see if it would go away (it didnt).
So I decided to go ahead and take the outer case off, send my clutch basket out to be modded, and rebuild the water pump. I ordered a new impeller, bearings, and all seals. I finally put it all back together today after long waits for the water pump parts. It is still weeping out of the weep hole, the same as before, cold or hot. Clutch basket seems great but haven't ridden the bike yet.
I decided not to attempt removing my water pump bearings once I saw the assembly, because I could not think of a way I could possibly do it myself without potentially causing damage. They spun smooth, no gritty feeling or wallowing, and were free of play.
I cannot describe my frustration level right now other than saying it's the first time I've thought of selling this bike despite tons of work I've put into it. I've done a water pump only on a klr before this, and I have to say that bike was extremely easier to do a WP rebuild on. The stupid coolant seal was an absolute PITA to remove, those that have done it know what I mean. Out of fear of hurting the soft aluminum it took me what felt like forever to remove it, hours for sure.
I don't really know what the next step is. All seals were fully seated in correct positioning etc. Oil looks fine, no coolant in it. The bike has been down for months mainly due to waiting for parts, and I can't believe it's still leaking.
There's 2 things I can think of: 1) the bearings are in fact past their service time (40k miles doesn't seem like a lot though and they seemed fine) or
2) something isn't right with the seals, which I know seems obvious but not to the person that carefully installed all of this.I did pre lube the coolant seal with coolant during install, so that seal wouldn't run dry.
I'm at the point where I will literally pay someone to rebuild a water pump/case seals for me to get back on the road. I've seen used ones on ebay, and maybe I could ship one to someone to do this for me so that my engine isn't exposed to the elements.
Ideas, words of wisdom, etc greatly appreciated as I'm at wits end right now.
When I addressed all these things I thought the DL was ready to go again. I was surprised to see on cold start that suddenly coolant was weeping out of the weep hole. To clarify, no part of the actual engine was hit during the tipover. It stayed dripping consistently, and I did a short ride to see if it would go away (it didnt).
So I decided to go ahead and take the outer case off, send my clutch basket out to be modded, and rebuild the water pump. I ordered a new impeller, bearings, and all seals. I finally put it all back together today after long waits for the water pump parts. It is still weeping out of the weep hole, the same as before, cold or hot. Clutch basket seems great but haven't ridden the bike yet.
I decided not to attempt removing my water pump bearings once I saw the assembly, because I could not think of a way I could possibly do it myself without potentially causing damage. They spun smooth, no gritty feeling or wallowing, and were free of play.
I cannot describe my frustration level right now other than saying it's the first time I've thought of selling this bike despite tons of work I've put into it. I've done a water pump only on a klr before this, and I have to say that bike was extremely easier to do a WP rebuild on. The stupid coolant seal was an absolute PITA to remove, those that have done it know what I mean. Out of fear of hurting the soft aluminum it took me what felt like forever to remove it, hours for sure.
I don't really know what the next step is. All seals were fully seated in correct positioning etc. Oil looks fine, no coolant in it. The bike has been down for months mainly due to waiting for parts, and I can't believe it's still leaking.
There's 2 things I can think of: 1) the bearings are in fact past their service time (40k miles doesn't seem like a lot though and they seemed fine) or
2) something isn't right with the seals, which I know seems obvious but not to the person that carefully installed all of this.I did pre lube the coolant seal with coolant during install, so that seal wouldn't run dry.
I'm at the point where I will literally pay someone to rebuild a water pump/case seals for me to get back on the road. I've seen used ones on ebay, and maybe I could ship one to someone to do this for me so that my engine isn't exposed to the elements.
Ideas, words of wisdom, etc greatly appreciated as I'm at wits end right now.
1 - 11 of 11 Posts
A few heat cycles, and it stopped leaking. Hope thats the end of it.
The new seal may have lapped itself in and you're good to go now.A few heat cycles, and it stopped leaking. Hope thats the end of it.
Always be sure to use the correct anti-freeze for the bikes. There are many variations of antifreeze and they are not all compatible. Some can actually help cause leaks. But, since your leak has stopped consider your bike may have well cured itself!
I'm pretty sure the manual calls for silicate free ethylene glycol and nothing more.
Yup, I've seen that before. Or perhaps there was a wee invisible speck of schmoo in there that worked itself out.The new seal may have lapped itself in and you're good to go now.
These mechanical seals are simply two very very flat and extremely hard discs of ceramic pushed together by a spring. Once in a while you get a bit of fluid before they get used to each other, or there's something microscopic in there.
It's also fairly easy to crack the ceramic during installation; most folks don't have a way to press them in, so you have to use a hammer... after this happened to me on my KLR, I always order two of the mechanical seals for water pump rebuilds because I really HATE having a bike sitting there open while waiting for parts. And yeah, I think combining the clutch cover and water pump like this is an extremely stupid design choice, but it is what it is, and it's pretty common unfortunately.
Wow, haven't been inside there yet. Sounds like a complicated mechanical nightmare, but Stromtroopers shall preservere!Yup, I've seen that before. Or perhaps there was a wee invisible speck of schmoo in there that worked itself out.
These mechanical seals are simply two very very flat and extremely hard discs of ceramic pushed together by a spring. Once in a while you get a bit of fluid before they get used to each other, or there's something microscopic in there.
It's also fairly easy to crack the ceramic during installation; most folks don't have a way to press them in, so you have to use a hammer... after this happened to me on my KLR, I always order two of the mechanical seals for water pump rebuilds because I really HATE having a bike sitting there open while waiting for parts. And yeah, I think combining the clutch cover and water pump like this is an extremely stupid design choice, but it is what it is, and it's pretty common unfortunately.
It's common for automotive water pumps with a Viton seal to leak from the weephole at first, but this sounds like a different animal, hopefully acting the same though.
A couple of things about mechanical seals…
Mechanical seals leak. They have to so that the faces are lubricated and don’t overheat from friction. They rely on a very thin film of liquid between the faces…appropriately 0.5 microns thick (20 millionth of an inch). A human hair is 10 microns thick. Because this liquid film is so thin, the “leakage” is so small that it’s undetectable and evaporates on the weep hole side without showing a drip. So, anything larger than 20 millionths of an inch that’s is on either face when assembling a seal will hold those faces farther apart and can cause leaking.
Sometimes it takes care of itself. The black rotating face on water pump seals are almost always carbon, and the white stationary face is ceramic (typically Aluminum oxide). Because the carbon face is softer, it can lap-in and conform to a bit of shwaz left there from the assembly process.
So that’s why I teach millwrights to never even touch the faces if possible. And if they did, give them a wipe with alcohol…but even then a lint free rag can be the source of contamination.
Mechanical seals leak. They have to so that the faces are lubricated and don’t overheat from friction. They rely on a very thin film of liquid between the faces…appropriately 0.5 microns thick (20 millionth of an inch). A human hair is 10 microns thick. Because this liquid film is so thin, the “leakage” is so small that it’s undetectable and evaporates on the weep hole side without showing a drip. So, anything larger than 20 millionths of an inch that’s is on either face when assembling a seal will hold those faces farther apart and can cause leaking.
Sometimes it takes care of itself. The black rotating face on water pump seals are almost always carbon, and the white stationary face is ceramic (typically Aluminum oxide). Because the carbon face is softer, it can lap-in and conform to a bit of shwaz left there from the assembly process.
So that’s why I teach millwrights to never even touch the faces if possible. And if they did, give them a wipe with alcohol…but even then a lint free rag can be the source of contamination.
Good info. I always try to keep new seals clean, and if applicable lubed, but seeing as these type of seals are that sensitive it's entirely possible some dust or something found its way in there.A couple of things about mechanical seals…
Mechanical seals leak. They have to so that the faces are lubricated and don’t overheat from friction. They rely on a very thin film of liquid between the faces…appropriately 0.5 microns thick (20 millionth of an inch). A human hair is 10 microns thick. Because this liquid film is so thin, the “leakage” is so small that it’s undetectable and evaporates on the weep hole side without showing a drip. So, anything larger than 20 millionths of an inch that’s is on either face when assembling a seal will hold those faces farther apart and can cause leaking.
Sometimes it takes care of itself. The black rotating face on water pump seals are almost always carbon, and the white stationary face is ceramic (typically Aluminum oxide). Because the carbon face is softer, it can lap-in and conform to a bit of shwaz left there from the assembly process.
So that’s why I teach millwrights to never even touch the faces if possible. And if they did, give them a wipe with alcohol…but even then a lint free rag can be the source of contamination.
The ceramic / rubber seal at the impeller which interfaces with the mechanical seal on my DL 650 water pump just pushed in by finger pressure. The larger mechanical seal needed help from large socket to seat. Culprit for leak was failed KOYO rubber seal behind mechanical seal . Tapping razor blade around metal perimeter of mechanical seal gave room to pry it out with tiny flat blade screwdriver thus no need to pull bearings. No leaks but was careful installing that KOYO rubber seal with 15 mm socket as driver. Would have been nice if Suzuki spec'ed a double lip KOYO seal .Yup, I've seen that before. Or perhaps there was a wee invisible speck of schmoo in there that worked itself out.
These mechanical seals are simply two very very flat and extremely hard discs of ceramic pushed together by a spring. Once in a while you get a bit of fluid before they get used to each other, or there's something microscopic in there.
It's also fairly easy to crack the ceramic during installation; most folks don't have a way to press them in, so you have to use a hammer... after this happened to me on my KLR, I always order two of the mechanical seals for water pump rebuilds because I really HATE having a bike sitting there open while waiting for parts. And yeah, I think combining the clutch cover and water pump like this is an extremely stupid design choice, but it is what it is, and it's pretty common unfortunately.
1 - 11 of 11 Posts
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