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"New" 2008 DL650 performance issues

13K views 31 replies 11 participants last post by  shmerick 
#1 ·
Hello People! my first post on here, so here goes. I have recently bought an old but new 2008 DL650. It was ridden home from the dealership by the previous owner in 2008, parked in a garage and left until I bought it about a month ago. When I bought it it only had 19Km on the odometer, everything looked like brand new on the outside. I drained all the foul petrol out of it, cleaned the fuel tank with acid (good as new now) and replaced the fuel pump and fuel filter, so far so good. It pumps plenty of fuel now. I changed the engine oil and coolant too. It started up immediately and I started to run the engine in, all seemed ok. I put some injector cleaner in the tank as a precaution. Today I went for a long ride with a pillion over a mountain range. At low RPM (up to about 6000RPM) and with small throttle openings (less than half) it seems to be fine. Here's the thing, when I open the throttle wide it makes a big induction noise and no power is made. I tried changing down to 3rd gear on the motorway to get it to rev high, but it wouldn’t go over 8500 RPM with the throttle wide open. There seems to be a spot somewhere just below 1/2-3/4 throttle where it suddenly makes more power. I tried to overtake up a hill at 50KM/H in second gear, held the throttle wide open and it just made no power, wouldn’t rev, and went nowhere, no acceleration at all. It goes faster with small throttle openings than large ones.
I don't know a lot abut fuel injection systems, but I am guessing that the throttle position sensor is stuck in an idle? position, because that was how it was sitting for years.
Can anyone give me some advice about what the symptoms I am experiencing could be caused by? How do I go about diagnosing the problem properly? What other components (other than fuel pump, fuel filter, injectors) come into contact with the fuel?
Thank you.
Andrew :confused:
 
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#2 ·
I wonder if the secondary throttle butterflies may be sticking. Is it possible you are getting an FI at the clock position but didn't notice.
 
#3 · (Edited)
You don't mention the air intake system ...I don't know the set up on the Wee as I don't wrench my own but the symptoms almost seem you are starved for air flow.

I've heard of critters setting up camp in the air system on some bikes. Your "induction" noise might be the poor machine sucking through a straw.

Looking online that seems a potential if the filter or the air box is compromised.

 
#4 ·
Thanks for the replies. The air box and air filter is fine, all as new. I'll do some research about the secondary throttle butterflies. The way it feels I'm picking that there is an electronic component that is not sending the correct signals to the ECU about the status of the engine, but hey, I really am not an expert in fuel injection symptoms. Can anyone tell what symptoms are present with dirty/partially blocked injectors? I don't think they are, but it would be good to know what to look out for.
 
#5 ·
Any chance your clutch switch is not operating properly ...might be stuck after sitting so long - I has no idea of the effects it had til I ran into the issue.
Doesn't sound like the symptoms but hey - one more thing to check
 
#6 ·
Hello People. I thought I should report back about today's attempts to fix my bike. We did a fuel flow test by turning the ignition on and off 3 times and measuring the output. We got 120ml. I have read that it should be 300-350ml so we decided to examine the new fuel pump and filter that we had recently installed. The filter was a little dirty, which I kind of expected, but not terrible, so I we disassembled the fuel pump, cleaned it and reassembled it. Fuel flow increased to 140ml, still not what I had read it should be. Then I checked the secondary throttle butterflies operation. We just removed the air filter and I have an endoscope so I could see that they were cycling when turning the ignition on. They remained in the almost closed position after their start up cycle, which I presume was because the bike was cold and that's the cold start choke position. We reassembled it and had a short test ride. To my amazement all problems have gone. I'm really not sure whether it was anything to do with the pump or whether I disturbed something. The only other thing we did was put the bike into dealer mode, but it didn't report any faults. I will report back if any problems occur.
 
#7 ·
You probably looked at the strainer on the fuel pump. The filter is inside the pump assembly body and not inspectable. It sounds like you replaced the fuel pump with a used one. If you have the original fuel pump on hand, It's probably in better shape. The high pressure filter is in part #7.

 
#9 ·
pat-

you constantly amaze me!

i know you no longer ride a wee/glee but you are such a wealth of info and i so very much appreciate your continued contribution.

i apologize in advance if this thank you is too public.

be well.

rob
 
#8 ·
Thanks for the reply. The pump assembly is still the original one, I just replaced the motor part and strainer the first time with a new one from eBay. I did clean out #7 with carb cleaner yesterday and blow it out with compressed air. It did look pretty clean though.
 
#10 ·
Thanks for the words of wisdom. Latest update is:
I took bike out last night and tonight. Seemed good last night, plenty of power, all good. Only did about 20km. Again tonight, same distance, but noticed that power at high RPM and wide open throttle, is starting to fade. I suspect that the filter (s) are starting to block again.

Can anybody definitely confirm that there should be between 300-350ml of fuel pumped when the ignition is cycled 3 times? That seems like a lot to me. The service manual shows a fairly complicated test involving applying 12v to the pump via the ECU. I am loth to touch it in case I break it.

Can anyone give me any tips about cleaning the high pressure filter? Soak in carb cleaner and blow out with compressed air? Ultrasonic cleaner? A new one here is NZ$85 plus shipping.

The bike has now done just over 500kms from new.
 
#11 ·
Wait....I have to ask.....why would someone buy a brand new bike, ride it home and park it for 8 years? Tell us a story please......

Also, I thought I saw a thread about deleting the internal filter on the pump and going to a larger in-line filter?
 
#12 ·
Switching the ignition on three times introduces too much error in the reading. Connect the yellow/red wire on the pump to the battery positive and the black/white wire to the battery negative for 30 seconds. A new pump should produce 1200ml in that time. 600ml is about the minimum required to keep the engine supplied.

300-350ml after switching the ignition on three times is the correct amount but is not as accurate a measure.
 
#13 ·
To answer the question about why the bike never got used from new, the previous owner is an extended family member, he has a mental illness, got a redundancy pay out, bought the bike. We think he scared himself riding back from the dealership and he never touched the bike again. We've tried to get in touch with him many times, but he has become reclusive and won't have contact with anyone. So I paid his father for the bike and he's put the money aside for him if he ever shows up. All a bit sad really.
I've decided to cough up the money for a new high pressure filter. It should be here on Friday, I'll install it on Saturday morning and do a flow test and report back. Funily enough it was cheaper to buy in New Zealand than the USA. Most unusual.
 
#14 ·
I've got to add that when I recieved this bike the plan was to get it going so the previous owners father (who had been storing it) could sell it for a better price as he is going into a retirement home and didn't have space to keep it. When we did get it to go, I just loved the riding position and torquey power delivery, so I sold my street legal XR650R and bought the VStrom. I never thought I would own one, but hey, riding is believing! Our other bike is a CB1300, but I prefer the VStrom any day.
 
#16 ·
Good news! I fitted the new "pressure regulator" this morning and all is well. I measured the fuel flow with three turns of the ignition and it has more than doubled to 310ml. I took the bike out for a ride and it rides really well, pulls hard through all revs at WOT. It is a little odd on the overrun and then transitioning to low throttle. almost jolty. My mate rode it today and unprompted said the same thing. I am now wondering what state the injectors are in. I’ve put fuel injector cleaner in every tank of fuel so far, but given the state of the high pressure filter I am wondering whether it is worth removing them and taking them to a fuel injection specialist for screen replacement and nozzle cleaning.
Anyone got any words of wisdom to add about dirty/partially blocked injectors? Symptoms? Remedies?

I am going to attempt to clean the old "pressure regulator" high pressure filter so if the new one gets clogged I can swap it out. I have it soaking in carb and throttle body cleaner and will back flush it with compressed air once it has been soaked for a few days. If that doesn't work I will try brake cleaner next.
 
#17 ·
I installed the new fuel injectors today. I managed to get a pair of new, genuine Suzuki ones from eBay for US$120+ shipping. Took me three attempts to finish the job properly. In fact the whole thing was a pain in the arse.
The front hose clamp that holds the air box to the throttle body is a bitch to get at and was SUPER tight. I ended up removing the air box without disconnecting it, then still couldn?t get the hose clamp undone, so I used my Dremel thingy to cut the hose clamp screw. What a pain. Luckily I had a replacement screw.
I replaced the injectors, reassembled and discovered that I hadn?t put the rear cylinder injector in properly so fuel leaked everywhere.
Disassembled again and corrected that, reassembled and got C49 error code. I disassembled yet again and discovered I had forgotten to plug in one of the many sensors. So yet again I had to disassemble, plug the sensor in and reassemble yet again. The old injectors looked OK, but I guess it's impossible to know for sure without special flow and spray pattern test equipment. They did have some signs of varnish on the inlet side.
Took it for a test ride and there was a significant improvement in performance, a lot smoother at small throttle openings. I was feeling relieved that finally the bike was as Suzuki intended it to be. Then after a couple of KMs of slow riding at 50km/h the bike started behaving badly, intermittent power delivery at small throttle openings, so bad I thought it was going to stop. It felt similar to the fuelpump flow issues I experienced earlier. I pulled into a petrol station and even though the fuel gauge said I had 3/4 of a tank, I topped it off. It took 8.9 litres, so definitely wasn't about to run out.
After filling the tank everything went back to normal. All running perfectly. I am now wondering what all that was about?
Does the fuel tank level have any effect on the amount of fuel pumped? I wouldn't expect it too, but one of the fuel pump tests specified a large amount of fuel in the tank.
I'm going to do another fuel pump flow test later.
 
#18 ·
Make sure the tank is venting properly(the vent is inside the cap) because that almost sounds like you were running out of fuel. As for your question, I have not run out yet, but have put in 4.9 gal(capacity is listed as 4.8 ) with no throttle issues.

Or, fuel canister?
http://www.stromtrooper.com/dl650-dl650a-2004-2011/161297-engine-sputter-full-fuel-tank.html

As for the tank cap. I have a '03 Yamaha Kodiak that started having a intermittent "cutting out" then stalling issue. Wait 2 min, start up and go. It drove me nuts because out of a week of riding it every day it wold do it once, or three or not at all. I cleaned the carb, then replaced the jets, float, o-rings, etc....no help. The thing kept telling me it was a tank vent issue, so one day I took the cap off and dissected it. Well, low and behold, there were tiny air passages in the cap under a plate with a check ball and yep, all corroded and gunked up. Cleaned it, put it back together and no more problems.
 
#19 ·
It's still not right.

Thanks for the advice. I removed the fuel tank cap yesterday and dismantled. Photos attached. Apart from some superficial corrosion and some water, it all seemed OK. I reassembled and took the bike out for a test ride today. All seemed OK at first, until after about an hour of fairly fast riding the same issue appeared again, low power, unresponsive at wide open throttle at high RPM, just like it is starving for fuel. Once again I was near a petrol station, so I did the same as last time, pulled in and topped off the tank. Once again, all the issues went away again. What I should have done was open the gas tank cap and then try it again, but I was riding with others and didn't want to make a fuss. Interestingly enough it took almost exactly the same amount of fuel as last time, 8.7 litres. I'm now completely baffled as to what the problem is. I'm going to ride the bike for a bit because I am fed up with working on it. The next thing I will probably do is do a fuel pump flow test with less than 10 litres fuel in the tank.
 

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#20 · (Edited)
I have progressed with the diagnosis of the fuel supply issue. Today I have confirmed that the issue has nothing to do with the fuel tank level or the fuel cap vent.
I went for a ride and about 20kms in to the ride it started playing up. All the usual issues, poor throttle response, like it was starving for fuel. I stopped and opened the fuel cap, restarted and the problem went away for a bit, then returned. While I was riding on the motorway it started doing it again and I had a bright idea. I turned the ignition on and off while I was riding and lo and behold performance was back to normal. I tried this a few times, every time it started to starve for fuel and every time it fixed it. So, my thoughts are that the "priming" that happens when turning the key on is correcting the issue temporarily, until it starts to starve again. Now I am wondering why the pump isn't keeping up flow or pressure when I am riding normally and why priming it corrects this only temporarily. Could it be a non sealing O ring in the pump?
Anyone had a similar issue?
Any advice as to what to check?
I've already replaced the fuel pump motor, high pressure filter, fuel pump inlet filter, fuel pressure regulator and fuel injectors.
 
#22 ·
Brilliant detective work!



Brilliant detective work on the O-ring assembly issue!
 
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#21 · (Edited)
Good news! after my messing about turning the ignition on and off I decided to remove the fuel pump and inspect it again. Before I removed it I did a flow test and got the usual 300ml with three cycles of the ignition. No change there. I removed the pump, disassembled and very carefully reassembled. The only thing I did differently was I mated the pump motor with the top high pressure fuel filter before I put the mated the bottom housing and inlet filter. It felt like it had a nice tight seal with the o ring on the pump motor outlet and high pressure fuel filter top. I refitted the pump and to my amazement all the issues have gone away. I rode it with a fairly low fuel level, two bars on the gauge and no issues, then filled it up and again all good. The bikes performance has improved dramatically now, much much faster and no flat spots anywhere. All I can think is that while the pump had good fuel flow it didn’t have good pressure and was bleeding off pressure somewhere from one of the o rings in the fuel pump housings. Maybe I pinched an o ring last time I assembled? Although its a bit of a mystery I am stoked that its finally fixed. I rode it today for 100kms and no issues at all.
Thanks for everyone’s help on this forum. It's great to know there are a bunch of knowledgeable people I can consult if I ever have issues again.
On a side note, next time I ever have to work on a motorcycle fuel injection system I am going to buy a fuel pressure gauge. I think if I had one of those to start with I would have saved myself a lot of time.
 
#23 ·
I had dejavu all over again as I read through this thread. Shivers!

I bought an 08 in late 2012 with similar history and stupid low (80) mileage. It had the same symptoms, I chased the same fueling demons and I replaced almost all the same parts.

I don't know if your forced to use ethanol on your corner of the planet, but if so, I bet these pics look eerily familiar. Nasty stuff when left festering in a fuel tank.







Good job on sorting through it
 
#24 ·
Just to help anyone in the future, I had a very similar issue on my car (Subaru). A blockage in the inlet at the bottom of the fuel pump housing was severely restricting flow, similar to running out of fuel. But, when fuel tank level was above 1/2, the snap together join between the two halves of the pump housing would leak enough fuel to let car run normally. Lesson; there can be alternative pathways for the pump to draw fuel, but they may become less effective at lower tank levels...

I spent a fortune with a dealer replacing pump etc, before pulling it out and discovering it myself, in less than an hour....
 
#25 ·
Thanks nostromdumbass, good to know I am not the only one who has been through this situation. Your photos look very similar to what I experienced, except yours look worse than mine, we do have some ethanol in our fuel from the "no name" petrol stations here, but BP and Shell (rebranded "Z" in New Zealand) are usually OK. I wholesale Outdoor Power Equipment for a living and always advise my dealers to tell the end users to use BP or Shell. How did you get the rust out of your fuel tank? I used Hydrochloric acid, worked a treat for me.
I'm wrapped that mine is finally sorted. I'd almost given up on it.
 
#26 ·
Thanks Zone5. I think that's what was happening with my bike, except the fuel pump inlet filter wasn't blocked, I think the joint was the problem. Good of you to explain it so well for others ?
 
#28 ·
Well that's it sorted. Itbwas only pumping about 100mls fuel when tested with the three turns of the key method. Inlet and high pressure fuel filter full of crap/dirt. Blew out with carb cleaner and compressed air, reassembled and now getting 250ml fuel flow. A quick test ride and all is well again. I am now wondering how many times I am going to have to do this until the last of the crap in the tank has dispersed. Anyone got any good ideas about how to get that last little bit of fuel out of the tank that sits at the bottom of the tank with all the dirt lurking in it? I'm thinking i need some kind of fuel vacuum cleaner to suck it out.

Sent from my Lenovo K50a40 using Tapatalk
 
#29 ·
Anyone got any good ideas about how to get that last little bit of fuel out of the tank that sits at the bottom of the tank with all the dirt lurking in it? I'm thinking i need some kind of fuel vacuum cleaner to suck it out.
HYG, ******* Moto Tank Cleaning

You gotta think outside the box if you want to be a REAL strommer.
Actually do a search on youtube, there a ton of helpful tips.
 
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