[Sagebrush]

Fixing the air box issues and the secondaries is really a common need, people do stupid things to their bikes. But, the stock map for my 06 is horrible, especially the power commander crapola. I'm still running the Big B map in my 2006, still runs fine after all these years. Still on the original coolant hoses, but I have changed the vacuum and fuel hoses. Probably will need to change the small fuel hose on the injector rail again, but so far the "new one" I put on years ago is not leaking..... and I need new brake hoses but I haven't bothered with it yet, it kinda stops okay. I resisted doing the TRE thing for years, but getting full power in 6th is really nice. Much less shifting and I also dropped a tooth off the rear sprocket when I needed new stuff anyway. That bigger chain is still going strong, the 530 conversion and a little lower gear ratio was well worth the trouble for me. Oh and the auto chain oiler! Messy but man it has kept my chain looking like new. The DL1000 is the only bike I've kept over many years of riding, I'll probably never sell it, part it out maybe someday or take it to the scrap yard!

 

[Dr Fergstrom]

You would be amazed at what a PCFC would do for your under 4,000 RPM running problem. Our bikes come from the factory very lean in order to pass emissions tests. Very lean under 4,000 that is. Rich in the WOT range, as it should be. You can get the problem fixed by getting the unit "flashed" also, but for the cost of doing that, a PCFC allows you to adjust it any time you want to try a change.

Check out the economical Scandinavian Booster Plug to correct factory lean running.

 

[STCorndog]

My helmet is off to you guys who heap love on these older bikes.....GOOD WORK GENTLEMEN (and ladies).

I must admit, as I get older, I am more into turning new bikes into used bikes. When I sell you one of mine, do not believe a word I say.

 

[Cletus]

An update and some further troubleshooting on the 04 Vee.

I made a new map for the PCFC. Between 1500 and 4000, and between 2% and 30% throttle, I've added a max of 7% more fuel. Contrary to what some would say, the bike now happily putts along above 3k rpm. I do not accelerate much at low RPM but cruising is fine. I'm getting about 40mpg 2up riding conservatively. Fueling seems nice now, and unexpectedly there is much less compression braking, although that could be because my idle is still a touch high, at 1400.

The last annoyance that I'm going to be chasing, once we can go outside without choking here in the PNW, is the 2500 to 3500 rattle while accelerating. This rattle only happens under low to moderate acceleration, like leaving a stop sign around town or shifting to a higher gear on a low speed limit road. The rattle sounds like someone shaking a bin half full of nuts. The frequency increases with the RPM, until at 3500 it suddenly goes away.

Here's what I know. This rattle did not happen on the test ride when it was running badly. The rattle was reduced quite a bit just before I found the rear plug fouled from the seafoam in the gas (see my earlier post about that). This leads me to think that the rattle only happens when the bike is running well. Btw, I've re-torqued all of the engine mount bolt and there are new cush rubbers in the rear wheel.

My theories are:
1: stronger or more defined power pulses are shaking something
2: the noise is from the straight cut gears on the clutch or in the transmission contacting, disengaging, and recontacting with the power pulses.
I'll run down the first theory, as there is nothing I can do about the second.

The rattle sounds like it is coming from a lower area on the bike. Sound is weird, and the apparent source of the noise can be misleading.

Chain? I have the slack set to 1.75" but the bike has a lowering link on it. I did not think about it before but the link may affect the chain slack requirement.
My swingarm is closer to being inline with the front sprocket than a stock bike. My chain may be way too loose, slapping around at those conditions.

Fairing? Large flat panels of ABS plastic might be acting like drumheads

Front sprocket? I'm running a sprocket without the rubber ring on it. None of my other bikes had the cush ring and I've not had this noise, but they were IL4s.

Something else? I've checked the exhaust gaskets, made sure that all the nuts and bolts on the whole bike are tight, and there are no missing plastic rivets on the plastics.

Is this normal? I would not expect so, I'd think that this noise would drive everyone batty.

Does anyone have suggestions? Thanks.

 

[oldjeep]

Have you replaced the clutch basket yet? And are you willing to share your pcv map?

 

[Cletus]

Hi,
I have a Werks basket in it that came with the bike. I opened it up to install a new clutch and make sure everything was right.

I'll share the map in the map thread. Could be a few days though.

 

[Big B]

Doesn't sound like you have a WERKS basket, sounds like you still have the chudder.

 

[oldjeep]

Doesn't sound like you have a WERKS basket, sounds like you still have the chudder.

Interesting thought. Wonder if he has a picture from when he replaced the clutch plates. It is easy enough visually to tell

 

[Cletus]

I'm certain it is a Werks basket. I have the receipt and the differences are easy to spot.
I took the basket off when I was replacing the clutch. Everything seemed right, as far as I could tell. The springs were snug, the brass bushing is in good condition.

 

[Cletus]

I did a couple of things today to troubleshoot the last annoyance. BTW, it's pretty good to have only one annoyance, my last few bikes were covered with them (Versys 650, FZ6, WR250R)

Chain adjustment using this method http://www.ironbutt.com/ibmagazine/ibmag12-p64-67.pdf

I used a ratchet strap to compress the rear suspension until the chain was at it tightest spot. As I had guessed, it was still really loose.With the suspension still strapped down I adjusted the chain to reduce the slack to about 15mm. With the suspension decompressed that gave me about 25mm slack. I was surprised in the difference the lowering link makes in the required slack.

Took it for a ride, no difference.

I started pushing down on various pieces of the fairing as I rolled through the noisy range a few times. No difference.

Last thing to try was the chudder test. I'd not tried it because the reworked basket is installed. Slowly accelerating in 4th and 5 gear up to 35 mph I pulled the clutch but not enough to make it slip. The noise was not eliminated but it was greatly reduced. I repeated this quite a few times to determine the RPM range more exactly, I was able to make the bad sounds from 2100 to 3200 under light acceleration.

I'm certainly not inclined to tear into the bike again, so I'll forgive the bike this one thing.

 

[Bugzy]

Yeesh, quit trying to fix it, ride it at 4k and problem solved. It is a lot better on your drivetrain too, it is not made to be lugged at low RPM's, this is a racing motor, have some fun with it.
Near 4k you can feel the entire bike come to life, vibrations stop, it pulls harder, it sounds better, doesn't that tell you what you need to know? Rev it up.

 

[oldjeep]

A racing motor?

 

[Cletus]

Ok, so call me fickle. I can not get past the vibration at 2500 rpm. I was told by a riding buddy that he could hear the rattle from his bike. That can not be normal.

Thinking about it, the rattle did not occur when I got the bike, it was running stupidly rich at the time. So rich that my jacket stank of gas when I rode it.
Rattle started when I set the tps correctly. Further experiments show that the rattle is much worse on low grade gas and when its cold. Running premium and after riding continously for a half hour, it is either light or gone completely.

I synced again, checked tps (raises at 1900), rode without bodywork, pulled the secondaries (grasping at straws here), all with no change.

So, good gas and heat soaking make it better. I'm out of ideas but still know something is not right. I'll keep trying and if find a cure I'll post it.

BTW, keeping it above 4k is nowhere near practical. How do you accelerate in a residential area with the revs above 4k? Why not just set the idle to 4k?

Anyhow, I came up with a solution. Leftover 2019 that had a good discount.

 

[slovcan]

Congratulations on your new 2019! That's a heck of an expensive solution to what I suspect is a combination of poor fueling and a worn poorly designed factory clutch basket, though. I confess I can't remember the details of the 2 pages of posts, but I know you did a lot of great work on her and somebody will get a good 2004. The 2019 generation is supposed to be a totally sorted and totally different bike than the 1st generation.

 

[Max in Montreal]

I too have a werks clutch and I too still have some sort of rattle...I too would like to be able to ride without vibration in lower RPMs...

 

[oldjeep]

I too have a werks clutch and I too still have some sort of rattle...I too would like to be able to ride without vibration in lower RPMs...

Buy something that doesn't have a v twin engine?

 

[Max in Montreal]

Buy something that doesn't have a v twin engine?

... no no...it still feels like I have chudder...

 

[Bustednuklz]

You mentioned that one cylinder had valves that were carboned up from oil through the air box, and that the noise is reduced with higher grade fuel. Wondering if the cylinder that had the carboned up valves is also carboned up in the combustion chamber causing detonation? Carbon can be the source of pre-ignition. Kind of a long shot, but you have tried everything else. I wonder if it would get better yet again if you tried a tank or two of 94 octane???

 

[Bustednuklz]

Just reread your initial post that said you compression readings are almost identical, so I think that will shoot my theory down...........

 

[Cletus]

I just had a thought. It's not too likely but hey, something else to try.

Things affect the rattle.
1 load. Rattle only happens under light acceleration.
2 fuel. Lower octane makes it worse.
3 heat soak. It gets better after 30ish minutes.
4 state of tune. When it ran poorly the rattle did not happen.

Ok, crazy thought time. I'm going to connect these:
Lower octane =more energy during combustion =stronger inpulse. Poor tune = weaker impulses.
Headlights are kinda dim. (Replacement bulbs did not help) I suspect the bar switch.
Handlebars vibrate with the rattle, just a bit.

What if the kill switch or some other main electrical connector becomes intermittent at those vibration frequencies. As the engine cuts in and out in time with the rpm, the missing could unload and reload force on the gear teeth very rapidly which is what the noise sounds like.

When the (assuming) high resistance switch heats, it responds to vibes differently, problem is reduced.

I'll clean the bar switch and post results.