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Discussion Starter #1
So I have a 2006 DL1000 with now 87,000 on it, and after two years of ownership (and putting on nearly 10,000 miles myself) I was ready to do all needed maintenance, especially the valve check/adjustment! So I read and researched and read some more, and was so ready to take this on! I did everything I needed to get to the point where I could check the valve clearances and adjust them if necessary. I pulled the front valve head off, turned the crank to where the cam lobes were in proper position and crank was on the FT mark, checked the clearances and found a few were too tight. So, curious to see what size shims were currently under the tappet buckets, I pulled both cams and checked. Then, I went to go check the rear. So, I turned the crank 270 degrees to the RT mark and made sure the rear cam lobes were in proper position, and then went on to check the clearances of the rear valves and pulled those cams to check the shim sizes, etc., and then it hit me..... I forgot to put the freakin front cams back in before turning the crank to the rear position!!! At this point I’m now freaking out, unsure what to do, so I try to guess where the front cams would be at that given crank position, and I try to set them back in and secure them down. Also unsure if I put the rear cams back in correctly, I make another dumb move and try to put one of the rear cams in a different spot from where it was.... I then I tried to rotate the crank, and eventually hit a point where I hit total resistance—I’m assuming which means the valves were touching the piston in one or both of the cylinders—and so my valves aren’t even close to the position they should be in, and I’m sure my timing isn’t even close....

I’m super upset, and made a dumba** rookie mistake.... if I would’ve just thought things completely through while doing it, then it could’ve been avoided, but the fact of the matter is I messed up, and I have no idea how to go about fixing this issue and getting the valves and cams where they are supposed to be to have proper timing.

Can this be fixed?? Can anyone help me solve this?? I will be forever indebted to you!!
 

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I believe it can be fixed. You need to just go take a break. Get a good night's sleep. Come back to it in a day or two, anxiety free.

The cam shafts are engraved so you know intake from exhaust. On the gear part of the cam it should indicate front or rear cylinder too. And the gaps are measured when each cylinder is at top dead center (TDC) of compression.

If it were me, I'd loosen the cam cap bolts and work the bolts, caps and cams loose and remove. If the engine stopped while you hand cranked it (and you didn't go ape on it trying to force it to turn more even though it wouldn't) the caps and cams will be under pressure most of the way as you loosen the bolts. But everything should come apart just like the first time you did it.

Then you need to find TDC for #1 cylinder. Get a friend to help. Insert a long sturdy thin wooden dial rod down #1 cylinder spark plug hole. Make sure the rod is plenty long. As you crank the engine have your friend ensure the rod is absolutely straight into the sparkplug hole, not at an angle. As the piston comes up, the rod will reveal that. Once it get to the top and pauses as you SLOWLY crank, you'll be at TDC. The question then is which TDC. You need TDC compression. Look in the peep hole and see if the proper letter for the front can be seen. If you don't see them, crank the engine around again and using the wood dial rod you can tell when it is coming back to TDC again. Do the correct letters show up in the peep hole this time?

When you are at TDC compression the correct letters will show through the peep hole and you can proceed with cam installation. Just remember to check them once you get them in and tightened down. It is too easy to have them one tooth off -- which means you need to take them apart.

There are some great videos out there on UTube and this forum showing all the gory details of getting the cams back in "just right".
 

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Burt, relax, it will live!

Just don't try to rotate the engine further. As Yarz says the restriction will go away once you take the camshafts out again, then the valves are all closed, no contact possible with the piston.

Now you need a service manual (or a copy of the relevant pages) so you can follow the procedure correctly and see the marks on the cam gears you need to look for.

Online info is also available but the book is the best way to do it correctly and step by step. NOTE: the timing procedure for the rear cylinder is NOT the same as for the front cylinder: https://www.stromtrooper.com/dl1000-2002-2012/400802-rear-valve-timing-fubar.html

https://www.google.com/search?q=dl1...t8KHYejCUIQ_AUIDigC&biw=1536&bih=790&dpr=1.25
 

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Discussion Starter #4
Thank you both for the help!! I just went back out with a clearer head, popped out all four cams and realized that when the cams are out then the valves can’t be depressed, or opened! (DUH!) hahaha, then I went on to find TDC of the compression stroke for the front cylinder, popped in the front two cams, and then rotated 360 degrees, popped in the rear cams (lined up appropriately), and cycled the crank through a few rotations with no issues!!! Timing marks are where they should be on all four cams at each specific marking!

All hope is restored! Thankfully, with my ignorance, and your knowledge/aid, I learned a valuable lesson about this bike!

I ordered a manual as well, lol. I’ve watched some many YouTube videos about doing this procedure, but I guess you just can’t truly learn something until you do it yourself!

Thanks again guys,

Tanner
 

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I find myself in that situation from time to time. You just need to step back, clear your head, then go back to it. You learn the most from these situations in my opinion.
 

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Getting a good nights sleep over this is the trick indeed.

Then you need to find TDC for #1 cylinder. Get a friend to help. Insert a long sturdy thin wooden dial rod down #1 cylinder spark plug hole. Make sure the rod is plenty long. As you crank the engine have your friend ensure the rod is absolutely straight into the sparkplug hole, not at an angle. As the piston comes up, the rod will reveal that. Once it get to the top and pauses as you SLOWLY crank, you'll be at TDC. The question then is which TDC. You need TDC compression. Look in the peep hole and see if the proper letter for the front can be seen. If you don't see them, crank the engine around again and using the wood dial rod you can tell when it is coming back to TDC again. Do the correct letters show up in the peep hole this time?

When you are at TDC compression the correct letters will show through the peep hole and you can proceed with cam installation. Just remember to check them once you get them in and tightened down. It is too easy to have them one tooth off -- which means you need to take them apart.
I was reading this and I don't get it. Or rather, I think this is wrong but I'm not sure.

The markings that you can see through the peep hole are on the flywheel/rotor, which is connected to the crankshaft. Not to the camshaft. This means that every time the piston is at TDC, you will see the markings. Regardless of whether this is TDC on the compression stroke or TDC on the exhaust stroke. So you can't use this method to find TDC on the compression stroke. Right?

Also, if you removed all your camshafts for whatever reason, and you can't use cam lobe position to find where the compression stroke is, how do you find TDC at the compression stroke? Or is this one of those things that doesn't matter, as the ECU will sort you out properly?
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Getting a good nights sleep over this is the trick indeed.

Then you need to find TDC for #1 cylinder. Get a friend to help. Insert a long sturdy thin wooden dial rod down #1 cylinder spark plug hole. Make sure the rod is plenty long. As you crank the engine have your friend ensure the rod is absolutely straight into the sparkplug hole, not at an angle. As the piston comes up, the rod will reveal that. Once it get to the top and pauses as you SLOWLY crank, you'll be at TDC. The question then is which TDC. You need TDC compression. Look in the peep hole and see if the proper letter for the front can be seen. If you don't see them, crank the engine around again and using the wood dial rod you can tell when it is coming back to TDC again. Do the correct letters show up in the peep hole this time?

When you are at TDC compression the correct letters will show through the peep hole and you can proceed with cam installation. Just remember to check them once you get them in and tightened down. It is too easy to have them one tooth off -- which means you need to take them apart.
I was reading this and I don't get it. Or rather, I think this is wrong but I'm not sure.

The markings that you can see through the peep hole are on the flywheel/rotor, which is connected to the crankshaft. Not to the camshaft. This means that every time the piston is at TDC, you will see the markings. Regardless of whether this is TDC on the compression stroke or TDC on the exhaust stroke. So you can't use this method to find TDC on the compression stroke. Right?

Also, if you removed all your camshafts for whatever reason, and you can't use cam lobe position to find where the compression stroke is, how do you find TDC at the compression stroke? Or is this one of those things that doesn't matter, as the ECU will sort you out properly?
Well I had the spark plugs out of each cylinder, and after taking the cams out I rotated the crank a few times, and then used a zip tie down that I put down in the front cylinder to feel the piston coming up until it was near the top. Then, I checked through the peep hole to line it up with the FT mark.

I think I know you’re concern: whether knowing if it was in the TDC of the compression stroke or exhaust stroke, but my thinking is because all of the cams were out, then none of the valves were moving and it wouldn’t make a difference. So, I just found TDC of the front piston, then replaced those cams, turned the crank 360, put in the rear cams, and then cycled through a few times and all seems well.

I’m thinking I should be okay with this thinking, but someone please correct me if I’m wrong!

I haven’t reassembled the bike yet to test it, but I plan to tonight.
 

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I think I know you’re concern: whether knowing if it was in the TDC of the compression stroke or exhaust stroke, but my thinking is because all of the cams were out, then none of the valves were moving and it wouldn’t make a difference. So, I just found TDC of the front piston, then replaced those cams, turned the crank 360, put in the rear cams, and then cycled through a few times and all seems well.
The thing is, if the engine would be an old-fashioned carbureted engine with magnetos then it would not matter at all whether you assembled your camshafts at TDC of the compression stroke or on the exhaust stroke. It's the camshafts, after all, which determines what stroke you're dealing with. The carburetors work because the intake stroke sucks the air/fuel mixture into the cylinders, and the magnetos can be based on the "wasted spark" principle, giving a spark at the TDC after the compression stroke (which is useful) and giving a spark at TDC after the the exhaust stroke (which is wasted). So if you install your camshafts two strokes (one revolution of the crankshaft) out of alignment, things would still work. I think.

But this is a fuel injected bike, with an ECU. So it's the ECU which determines when fuel is delivered, and when the spark plugs should fire. Therefore the ECU needs to know at which stroke the engine is, but AFAIK the ECU only has a sensor on the crankshaft, not on the camshafts. So I'm trying to figure out how this feedback loop works, and by extension, what happens if you were to install the camshafts 2 strokes (one revolution of the crankshaft) out of alignment.

I'm pretty sure that you're not going to cause permanent damage. After all, in both cases the valves are closed when the piston is at TDC so there's no chance of the piston hitting the valves. But will the engine run?
 

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Discussion Starter #9
The thing is, if the engine would be an old-fashioned carbureted engine with magnetos then it would not matter at all whether you assembled your crankshafts at TDC of the compression stroke or on the exhaust stroke. It's the crankshafts, after all, which determines what stroke you're dealing with. The carburetors work because the intake stroke sucks the air/fuel mixture into the cylinders, and the magnetos can be based on the "wasted spark" principle, giving a spark at the compression stroke (which is useful) and giving a spark at the exhaust stroke (which is wasted). So if you install your camshafts two strokes (one revolution of the crankshaft) out of alignment, things would still work. I think.

But this is a fuel injected bike, with an ECU. So it's the ECU which determines when fuel is delivered, and when the spark plugs should fire. Therefore the ECU needs to know at which stroke the engine is, but AFAIK the ECU only has a sensor on the crankshaft, not on the camshafts. So I'm trying to figure out how this feedback loop works, and by extension, what happens if you were to install the camshafts 2 strokes (one revolution of the crankshaft) out of alignment.

I'm pretty sure that you're not going to cause permanent damage. After all, in both cases the valves are closed when the piston is at TDC so there's no chance of the piston hitting the valves. But will the engine run?
Ahh, I see what you mean.

Well, if I reassemble necessary parts in order to try and start it and it doesn’t run correctly, then I could probably just pull the front and rear cams at the current TDC FT mark that the front cams are currently set at, then rotate the crankshaft one full revolution back to FT and reinstall the front cams with the timing marks aligned appropriately? Then, go on to rotate the crank 360 degrees to FT and reinstall the rear cylinder cams with the timing marks aligned appropriately?
 

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You wont get an answer to the ignition system question, if it's wasted spark or not. I don't know the answer off hand. Start a new thread and ask specific. There will be members that know.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
Those pictures were exactly what I needed! After work today, I’ll double check that the idle gears in both cylinders are in the correct position, and if needed, pop the cams out and reinstall appropriately.

So are the tips of the two teeth on the front cylinder idler gear—that are outside of the engraved line—painted?

Thank you all so much for the help!
 

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With all due respect for you DIY's, this is the sort of thing that has me going to a mechanic friend who does this for a living and came to my house to check the valves. Even brought the shim set from his shop.
Another friend bent the valves in his 900SS Ducati engine while carefully checking the valves. He ended up getting a replacement motor.
Some times the learning curve is very steep.
 

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With all due respect for you DIY's, this is the sort of thing that has me going to a mechanic friend who does this for a living and came to my house to check the valves. Even brought the shim set from his shop.
Another friend bent the valves in his 900SS Ducati engine while carefully checking the valves. He ended up getting a replacement motor.
Some times the learning curve is very steep.
I agree, the learning curve can be very steep, BUT, there are a lot of ham fisted mechanics out there (working for dealers) who will cheerfully make mistakes (not willfully) at your expense. And, if you follow some very simple rules, you won't cause expensive damage. My father told me "Never force anything". This goes a long way. And, I've jokingly said, "when all else fails, read the instructions". If you read the Service Manual FIRST, a lot of the sturm un drang can be avoided. The only real difference is if you get stuck and come here to ask a Q, it might take a while to get an answer whereas your dealer might have you out the door and correctly repaired (or incorrectly) in the time promised (or not).

Horror stories abound regarding dealers and bikes and I'm not tarring them all with the same brush. However, I heartily support any diy guy out there - and I have done most of the maintenance on my cars and bikes for 30+ years. If you don't take risks, you don't learn. How many kids learn to walk w/o falling down?
 

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Discussion Starter #17
Personally, I will always try to figure something out on my own rather than paying a mechanic to do it when I know I can become capable through research and other’s advice. I get some sort of weird satisfaction knowing that I completed the job rather than handing it over to someone else. Plus, it gives me peace of mind knowing that after finishing I understand the inner workings of whatever I’m working on—especially in case it ever needs repair in a place or time where a mechanic is not available. But, I understand your viewpoint, and everyone is entitled to their own opinion.

Wow! That’s an incredible story! I can’t believe it even ran for that long with the cams installed in reverse! I’m glad they were able to find the issues and solve them.
 

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I commend you for attempting this work.

Twice, now, I've adjusted the valves in WEEs (two different bikes). I won't say I did everything perfectly, but both bikes were, and are, running well, in the end.

As Harry would say, a man has to know his limitations.

I'm mostly a desk jockey, now, but my childhood and young adult (home) mechanic experiences have served me well.

I would never encourage someone with no mechanic experiences to jump on a WEE/VEE valve-adjust job, but for someone who thinks they have a realistic chance, I say, go for it!

And good luck, by the wayl

:smile2:
 
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V twin of all angles , parallel twins and fours that are not bog stock 360 degree rotation can not run wasted spark. Eg Yam Trx and long bang R1s. There were some examples of big bang fours made where both pairs of pistons firing together.
Wasted spark can only be used if both pistons rise and fall together. Early Jap twins and fours, BM boxers are some stand out examples. It has also ben used in some car sixs. Mostly done for economics.

Cheers Tom R
 
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