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There are a lot of words above that are confusing to me. Let me see if I have this correct.....

Point 1 - dividing our ranks. Is your point we should not bash the cruiser guys making noise because there is power in numbers and everybody is against motorcycles (or at least ambivalent). Well, I equally dislike loud pipes, irrespective of bike brand. Put a loud pipe on a Super Tenere and you reach douche baggism in my mind.

Point 2 - this is even grayer to me. Are we adding to the stigma on motorcyclists, when we stand up and criticize when we disagree with what a fellow rider is doing?
Ha. Sorry for the confusion / I was trying to keep it short.
I should have taken the time to expand my "not defending bad behavior". I hate the use of loud for loud's sake pipes as much as anyone. Somewhere on the forum I even called out the pipes branded "4 Inch Neighbor Haters". Seriously, that is what they are named.
  • Point 1 was was referencing a member's comment (and one that I have also made from time to time) about motorcycles being banned. I do believe that we need to realize that we have moved way beyond criticism and landed on hate, bashing and even being encouraged to at least think about vandalizing people's bikes. I'm pretty sure that's what the coffee cup emoji stands for. You've got to admit that even a reasonable guy like yourself uses the term "douche baggism" with dripping disdain. I know who you mean and I agree. Yet we all have saddlebags we just reserve the term Panniers for ourselves and maybe some Gold Wings if they are ATGATT. :)
  • Point 2 - "Are we adding to the stigma on motorcyclists, when we stand up and criticize when we disagree with what a fellow rider is doing?" Not if you consider them a fellow rider. And that was not my point at all and not anything I said. I led with the fact that we self-stigmatize. We do. And I don't care that we do. Until we get to the point of not even walking across the parking lot to say hello to a fellow rider because he or she isn't one of us. I think you know what I mean. I just hope that when the chit hits the fan... we understand that piety in small circles won't do chit.
  • Let me add that if you look what the bicycle community has accomplished in terms of legislation and tax money spent ... it is very impressive. And I'm sure that they have forum threads that are critical of the hot shots who blow through stop signs. And yet they had the media pressed to their lips while in cities (San Francisco) once a month, on Fridays, they would gather in mass and block the commute traffic _ just to do it.
Peace out / rant over
 

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As society develops there WILL be more legislation where the collective WILL ask their legislators to pass more restrictive laws on excessive and invasive noise in their communities. Federally it will probably be the forced compliance of aftermarket exhaust and muffler systems. Aftermarket manufacturers will need to have each system tested for compliance before being allowed to put it on the market. Owners who modify those systems will be pulled over. I can hear them now "why don't you go a catch a REAL criminal?"
As said above, your freedoms only last until they impact on other citizens.
There is no doubt that noise is a pollution issue faced almost daily by every local body. Cars, motorcycles, trucks, loud parties, etc. Eventually those in authority will respond to multiple complainants to keep their jobs. In some localities they are already starting to do just that.
 

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NVDucati - maybe I am thick tonight and your follow up helps some.....but I am still puzzled a little. Either way, I believe we are on the same side of this.

I will add. I go to bike nights....well before Kungflu anyway. I think, at least where I live, that tribalism is less a concern than it was. One gathering I would go to was predominately the chrome gang. I always feel welcome there and admire a pretty bike as much as a badazz ADV model. I also have plenty of chrome guys come over and try to find some chrome on the S10. Everybody is social. At the other place I go (my favorite) there is a very eclectic mix of everything from rat bikes to vintage to dual sports to ADV....you name it. And cruiser guys are welcome there too.

There is a Super Tenere in the picture somewhere...
014.JPG
 

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I'm curious about your opinions of electric motorcycles and what their impact will be on fossil bikes. People somewhere will laud the peace and quiet of the new kid compared to the big, noisy behemoth, right? Will all bikes then begin to fit into one of the other type? Socially acceptable or not?

I can hear it now- That electric bike was so quiet I never heard it coming! I stepped right in front of it! That's so dangerous! It should at least have to make some noise!

I still want a firearm suppressor for all the right reasons, and the logic for restricting them escapes me. Best, DD
 

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I still want a firearm suppressor for all the right reasons, and the logic for restricting them escapes me. Best, DD
It shouldn't. Illegal/unsafe use I guess. Weapons use near or in residential. BTW I once used a suppressor that hugely affected the rifles accuracy.
The danger of near silent motor vehicles has already been made apparent with drivers needing to be extra careful when near pedestrians.
 

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Supressors are criminalized for the same reason that switchblade knives are illegal: the perception of their intended use.

From a logical standpoint, it makes no sense to criminalize an automatic opening knife. In some professions where a knife is used, being able to open one with one hand makes a lot of sense. They're no more or less deadly than any other type of knife. They weren't criminalized until after WWII. So what happened? Well, the moral panic of the postwar years about juvenile delinquency, fueled by movies like Blackboard Jungle and Rebel Without a Cause, stigmatized the automatic opening knife and irrevocably linked it to juvenile gang violence. Moral panic sets in, demands are made to "do something", and somewhere a politician, sensing an opportunity to court a whole new set of voters, decides to ban them. It costs him nothing, career wise; it's not like the switchblade knife industry has a powerful lobby to fight a law like that, and the benefits he reaps from appearing to be tough on crime far outweigh whatever efforts he puts into getting the ball rolling to make them illegal. Supressors, again through the ridiculous influence of things like television and moves, became linked with organized crime and assassinations, where the myth was perpetuated that a supressor could make a firearm so silent that you could murder someone in one room and someone in an adjoining room would never hear it. There's no logic to banning a switchblade or a supressor, nor any studies that show these items to be primarily a tool of criminals; their prohibition is simply a spasmatic reaction to a perceived problem, as opposed to an actual problem.
 

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Discussion Starter #88
Supressors are criminalized for the same reason that switchblade knives are illegal: the perception of their intended use.

From a logical standpoint, it makes no sense to criminalize an automatic opening knife. In some professions where a knife is used, being able to open one with one hand makes a lot of sense. They're no more or less deadly than any other type of knife. They weren't criminalized until after WWII. So what happened? Well, the moral panic of the postwar years about juvenile delinquency, fueled by movies like Blackboard Jungle and Rebel Without a Cause, stigmatized the automatic opening knife and irrevocably linked it to juvenile gang violence. Moral panic sets in, demands are made to "do something", and somewhere a politician, sensing an opportunity to court a whole new set of voters, decides to ban them. It costs him nothing, career wise; it's not like the switchblade knife industry has a powerful lobby to fight a law like that, and the benefits he reaps from appearing to be tough on crime far outweigh whatever efforts he puts into getting the ball rolling to make them illegal. Supressors, again through the ridiculous influence of things like television and moves, became linked with organized crime and assassinations, where the myth was perpetuated that a supressor could make a firearm so silent that you could murder someone in one room and someone in an adjoining room would never hear it. There's no logic to banning a switchblade or a supressor, nor any studies that show these items to be primarily a tool of criminals; their prohibition is simply a spasmatic reaction to a perceived problem, as opposed to an actual problem.
How about we keep this out of the contentious political arena
 

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And here I thought all along that this thread was political......silly me.
 

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They operate in a relatively remote environment, so probably under the radar of noise police
...and then there are the "jake brakes" on the dump trucks 200 yds from my back porch on a perfectly flat road.
 

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...and then there are the "jake brakes" on the dump trucks 200 yds from my back porch on a perfectly flat road.
Cheap O/Os saving their brakes? Or jerks who just like making a bunch of noise? Or a bit from column A and a bit from column B?
 

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I'm curious about your opinions of electric motorcycles and what their impact will be on fossil bikes. People somewhere will laud the peace and quiet of the new kid compared to the big, noisy behemoth, right? Will all bikes then begin to fit into one of the other type? Socially acceptable or not?...
Internal combustion is going away, a major battery break through will kill it off quickly.

Self driving is going away also. 20 years left maybe. What happens to motorcycles? Might be a few rebel types on them I guess but most young people today don't care about driving let alone riding.

Enjoy your bike while you can.
 
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What I said wasn't contentious, nor an endorsement of any particular political viewpoint. The question was raised a couple times why something that made exhausts louder was illegal while something that made firearms quieter was also illegal. The process I described was an example of how that occurs, and the example of the switchblade was used because it illustrates that the same process applies for things that aren't firearm related. The point was that laws can be created as an uninformed response to a perceived problem, and why they often conflict with the reasoning behind similar-seeming laws.
 

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The point was that laws can be created as an uninformed response to a perceived problem, and why they often conflict with the reasoning behind similar-seeming laws.
A very good point and well made. We need to be careful what we ask for when desiring a law. Best, DD
 

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Internal combustion is going away, a major battery break through will kill it off quickly.

Self driving is going away also. 20 years left maybe. What happens to motorcycles? Might be a few rebel types on them I guess but most young people today don't care about driving let alone riding.

Enjoy your bike while you can.
One of the reasons, (IMHO), to ban motorcycles will like be that because autonomously operated cars will need better and more expensive avoidance systems to not kill motorcycle riders. Further more why should 91% of the auto user population be forced to pay more and endure delays to abide the whims of the 9% of yucky bikes? Thus / Ergo: ban the bikes.
The issue of automated cars is currently on the table.
 
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Perhaps the loud pipe people could have the sound piped into their helmets. Similar to the way intake sound is piped into the cabin of some performance cars. Then you could enjoy the sound of loud exhaust without disturbing others.
I know it would never happen. Just being somewhat sarcastic.
But seriously, loud pipes are just annoying. I would support limits and enforcement. As our population increases our actions have increased impact on others and our environment. Civilized society needs rules. Our freedom here in the states are the freedoms granted by the constitution and our ability of self determination as a nation. We’re not free to do whatever we want. Laws regulating sound pollution are perfectly reasonable.
 
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