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Discussion Starter #1
Installed longer upper brake line from SV racing (Galfer), Installed MSR High bar so used the longer brake line. Used the new banjo bolts and washers from the kit. The kit had copper washers and the OEM are steel washers so I don't know if that is a issue or not. Tightened bolts and they weeped so retighened again and still they weep fluid. Did'nt torque them to 16.5 with wrench, will try that tomorrow but we tightened them really tight. Both the top and bottom banjo bolt washers are weeping fluid?:furious:
 

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Maybe they're too tight and the copper washers deformed? Copper is soft and 16.5 isn't that tight.
 

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Take it all apart and give it a good visual inspection.
 

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assuming all are installed correctly, they shouldnt weep - copper washers are acutally better, but u might need double on each side so four together to fill up any mating surface imperfection. Yes definitely torqued to spec too
 

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I'm the wrong guy to ask. I've broken two motorcycle bolts in my life. Both were banjos.
 

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banjo washers

My opinion - based only on using banjos on other than my DL650.

"steel" washers would be effin nuts - the washers need to be malleable (crushable, such as copper or aluminum) as they are a "use once and discard" item (i.e., "frangible") - the SS brake lines are NOT "use once" so they need to be harder than the washers.

Look for concentric circular ridges on at least one part of each mating-face-pair of washers, brake line and brake culinder/caliber etc fittings

if you don't find the ridges anywhere weeping is almost certain
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Thanks for the advice everyone, later I'll go and check with torque wrench once more and I was wrong the stock washers were aluminum not steel. Maybe I should have used the stock Banjo bolts with the new washers. Where can you get new washers, are they special or something to get at parts store or Loews etc..
 

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new crush washers are available at a quality auto part stores.. ie: Napa, Carquest, etc. There are thicker washers available in copper.
 

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Just eyeball the mating surfaces. You will see something wrong.

Dirt , crack, dent etc.


I have fixed these where... there was no crush washer at all
 

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From what I've read, there is a proper way of installing the washers. They are stamped out and if you look, one side is more rounded than the other. You want to place the side with the sharper edge toward the side where the pressure is coming because this side "bites" in and seals a bit better. On a line going to a caliper the sharper edge should go toward the line. Not quite sure how it would work out on a stacked setup coming out of the master cylinder though.
HTH
 

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Copper washers can be re-softened and reused if they aren't mashed out of shape. Compressing the copper work-hardens it. Copper's crystalline structure allows it to be annealed (softened) by heating red hot, then quenching (cooling in liquid). Yes, this is the opposite of steel.
 

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Copper washers can be re-softened and reused if they aren't mashed out of shape. Compressing the copper work-hardens it. Copper's crystalline structure allows it to be annealed (softened) by heating red hot, then quenching (cooling in liquid). Yes, this is the opposite of steel.
Good info., nice to know!
 

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I have not done the SS lines on the Wee yet , but I used the same lines on other bikes. I went to a HVAC store and got some washers there they had all types of them, from copper, aluminum to some nonmetallic material. I went with aluminum and it worked fine. Mine came with too hard ones also. The only way I could figure it would seal was to really torque it, not a good idea


Sent from my Motorcycle iPad app
 

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Yes, the heating/ quenching will resoften the copper washers, (as well as aluminum ones too), but don't expect it to return them entirely to their origional dimentions. Say they're squashed .010" at the circular "mark" where the banjo hose fitting squeezed them. That won't return to the other unsquashed areas dimentions. I've had no issues using resoftened crush washers, but I've also not had issues just reusing used ones. Just look at them ... don't want any severe deep marks in them. Look at your new hose banjo ends. Sealing edges ok? No factory defect?
I've found some washers are sized poorly... their ID too big so they fit sloppy loose on the banjo bolts OD. If so, try to "center" them and the hose-end on the bolt for complete surface contact area.

Oh BTW, just to be sure the bolts not too long, (stuff happens),.... hand assemble them with two washer left out. The bolt should still pull up to the hoses end. (DON"T TIGHTEN WITH A WRENCH... your just checking for proper fit). Also, doubling up on the washers where one normally would be, should never be necessary... one washers plenty thick enough. And orienting the "stamped" curved edge towards fluid flow direction ... or any other orientation for that natter,is also irrelevant. Complete/full mating surface is what you want to assure.

Last, if problem persists, might want to measure the end of the hoses width... around it's circular perimeter, (micrometer or calipers needed). Maybe there's too much width variance for the washer to accomodate.

Dave
 

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Discussion Starter #16
Just a update, yesterday torqued the banjo bolts and that seemed to cure the problem. 16.5 seemed like a lot but apparently not, sure was worried about a snapped bolt. I e-mailed Blair at SV racing and he suggested the torquing of the bolt till it stopped leaking. Excellent service from SVracing. Again thanks to everyone for the help.

Mike
 
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