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Discussion Starter #1
A Clutch Basket turned up here for modification this week which had only done 6,000 miles from new. Owner had made the chudder test while he rode which confirmed his basket as the source of harsh engine vibrations.

Was hesitant to strip it down and start the work at first because it looked and felt like new from the outside. Different story when stripped and looked inside. Four movies I shot of the problems show all.

THIS NEW GENUINE SUZUKI CLUTCH BASKET HAD ONLY COVERED THE EQUIVALENT OF ONE AVERAGE RIDING SEASON :jawdrop:

Basket worn loose on the hub of the primary drive gear.
Suzuki DL1000 Vibration - 6,000 miles from new clutch basket deterioration. - YouTube

Inside that bearing where the basket mounts on the hub of the primary drive gear had worn on just one side. This lack of a proper bearing when new is the cause of the movement in the above. Worn area shown at start and finish of movie. Other side of the bearings bore was still the original rough finish from the die casting - shown middle of movie. Note the basket is mounted on a temporary turn-table so I could film the surface as it rotated.
Suzuki DL1000 and SV1000 clutch centre wear - not machined from new. - YouTube

The inner spring holder plate was also very loose. And had polished a bright ring on it's back from constant rubbing and vibration on the back of the basket.
Suzuki DL1000 vibration - this engine damper has done 6,000 miles - become a vibrator - YouTube

This clutch basket had never even worked hard yet the bike had bad vibrations from the engine. The drive gear had not been striking the three alloy stop posts which was once thought by some to be the cause of the vibration. See only the slightest marks.
Suzuki DL1000 clutch overload stops - YouTube

Dealer response is still "there are no known problems with the clutch" and "thats how they are".

Makes me wonder if the said to be production ready 2014 model will have this area suitably modifed. Not that it might be visible but I'm off to the next show where the new model is likely to be there for all to see. With luck someone from Suzuki might be about who has a bit more knowledge as to all the technical changes. Not just the obvious changes to styling.

Svman
 

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I am thinking that is another quality Chinese supplier.

Murphy,s other law

Bad always replaces good

Maybe the 2014 "Beeeks" will get you even more business
 

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Discussion Starter #4
I am thinking that is another quality Chinese supplier.

Murphy,s other law

Bad always replaces good

Maybe the 2014 "Beeeks" will get you even more business
They are a very, very Japanese manufacturer. Make clutches for all the big four brands of bike in Hamamatsu-shi Japan. Also have factories in USA, China, Thailand, Philippines, Taiwan and India but these will manufacture for each home market.

I think the problem is they never get to hear from the end user whats wrong with their product. Too many layers of non technical and potential filters as you go back from us to the guy responsible at the production facility.

"Our severe quality and cost management are applied not only to the development stage but to all stages of product manufacturing, including prototyping, testing, and mass production. In addition, we constantly seek ways to increase efficiency and improve the current production system"

In other words they design and build things as cheap as they can. If only they would seek to ask us how they could improve.:headbang:

And perhaps this explains why everything is made with such a loose fit.

"Automatic ring-gear assembly process for motorcycle clutches"

Thats automated assembly of the entire clutch basket to you and me. No human being sees how slack they are once they have been put together.

Don't take this the wrong way but I never set out looking for business. I simply started re-building DL and SV baskets to save owners buying replacements that were not up to the job. And they are still not up to the job.
 

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I think the problem is they never get to hear from the end user what's wrong with their product.
In response to the question; "Latest V clutch baskets have vibration problems - Will the 2014 model be better?"

Suzuki has been building DL1000 motorcycles with obvious clutch & fueling problems for ten years,
and for ten years people have been buying them, so...
Why would they venture to change anything now?
 

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Because you only know what you know, not what you don't know

It seems the way of all companies
Inventors to Engineers to Bean Counters to Marketeers to Vulture Capitalists to bankruptcy.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Probably ignorance down to how they measure what they know?

Because you only know what you know, not what you don't know

It seems the way of all companies
Inventors to Engineers to Bean Counters to Marketeers to Vulture Capitalists to bankruptcy.
Yes - exactly.

Suspect they measure everything they can but their stats don't tell the truth. Ignorance is bliss? Bit like flying on instruments without taking a look out the window.

Measure Warranty claims - well we know getting one of these through is rare. And by the time its developed and been back to the dealers three times to prove where the problem is you are probably well out of warranty. And they feel fine at the importers when the dealer sends the old unit back so he gets paid.

Measure failures - we know they don't fail so perhaps creating something that looks nasty and frightens owners. Just get slowly worse and worse. And all too often without the owner realising.

Measure breakdowns - we know they don't let you down. Just get slowly worse so one day you decide it's time.

Measure spares sales - we know more than the usual number of baskets must have been supplied over the years. Problem is they will not know if these were bought for 6,000 mile or 160,000 mile bikes. And they can always explain that many must be to replace the 02 and 03 known problem version.

And the final softener - spare parts sales is good for everyone in the supply chain. Except we owners funding the whole charade.
 

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It seems the way of all companies

Inventors to Engineers to Bean Counters to Marketeers to Vulture Capitalists to bankruptcy.
Geez, that's profound.
Makes a great tag-line too.
BTW: You are spot-on correct with your statement.
+ + + + +
And svman, keep your shop warm because I have a feeling you're going to have a steady flow of basket work as the "new" Vee bikes come of age.
(Might wanna' buy some stock in Dynojet too) :thumbsup:
-Ej-
 

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Discussion Starter #9 (Edited)
First one arrived 2012 not 2014 of course

Yes. 2012 Vee basket here for modification. Just 6,000 miles from new.




This assembly weighs 10 Pounds or 4.5kg. It only needs the slightest encouragement from a failing torque damper to start it resonating at engine speeds of 3,000 to 4,000 rpm. The wear in the damper takes it "out of tune" so the resonance is felt throught the whole bike.

Here's the Torque Damper. Does a fairly decent job when new but soon goes off and creates the vibrations that resonate through the bike.


Same old problems inside. Seems little point recording it all again. Owner seems to think changing the oil at 5,000 miles was the trigger!

It's this excessive and jerky deflection of the damper at the critical engine/clutch rpm that causes the vibration.
YouTube - ‪5 Basket loose on the gear to vibrate.MP4‬‏

YouTube - ‪6 Inner plate loose.MP4‬‏

YouTube - ‪7 Cover removed Loose inner plate gives the effect of slack springs‬‏

YouTube - ‪8 Springs and plate eat in to seats in drive direction. Little wear in over-run direction.MP4‬‏



 

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In response to the question; "Latest V clutch baskets have vibration problems - Will the 2014 model be better?"

Suzuki has been building DL1000 motorcycles with obvious clutch & fueling problems for ten years,
and for ten years people have been buying them, so...
Why would they venture to change anything now?
I have been trying to convince people of this for many years !!.
I work in a industry that makes products for the trandportation industry.We had a product with a known issue and it 3 years before the sales ( or lack there of ) fell off so bad that the factory asked the end user what the problem was and fixed it!!.


Sent from Motorcycle.com App
 

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Discussion Starter #12 (Edited)
Petition Clutch Shudder on Suzuki m109r motorcycles

Misery love company / additional business?:headbang:
Had a read of the petition and left my details. Asking anyone with a similar mind to make contact and see if I can help. Whats betting the design and manufacture is the same in the m109? A different size and not interchangeable. Similar loose hub without a proper bearing and free spring plate moving about to push it all out of shape as soon as you ask it to take any load. Reads as though they have a "grab" "lurch" or "snatch" as they take off but are calling it shudder. Probably shudders as it grabs a frew times over?

A note in response to a question just asked.
Last thing I want is to put people off the bike or frighten potential owners away. It is not bound to show up in all engines but all have had the potential since introduction in 2002. Many owners have lived with it. Does not break or leave you stranded. New part from Suzuki is less than $300 to buy in the USA. To have a bikes existing part modified so it does not return will cost about $400 including parts, shipping and oil etc. Costs don't include labour, but most owners manage this themselves.
I'm involved as a way to help owners know it can be resolved as I did with my own bike over three years ago rather than doing as a business.


svman - sharealike everywhere else
 

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Discussion Starter #13
I work in a industry that makes products for the trandportation industry.We had a product with a known issue and it 3 years before the sales ( or lack there of ) fell off so bad that the factory asked the end user what the problem was and fixed it!!.
Sent from Motorcycle.com App
I was in similar industry before retirement. Problems there were down to too cozy relationship between buyers and third party suppliers. Issues were swept under the carpet with claims of a fix being found. Only to find they had not sorted the real issue some two or three years down the road. Essential you keep a close eye on this or your product is soon dead.

svman - sharealike everywhere else
 

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Additionally I believe that an arrogance sets in espescially amongst the non technical who's careers are boosted by dismissing engineering and ultimately the customer base. IE Spell check

A commitee is a group of individuals who singularly can do nothing that as a group decide nothing should be done
 

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2014 dl 1000 clutch

so is it going to be fixed or not?no one will buy a new bike knowing they are going to have problems.If a guy who owns a dl 1000 have made a way to fix it,shimming springs ,why cant a company just do it first.I sold mine,am will only buy another dl1000.when factory sez ,it is fixed and will stand be hind it.
 

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The DL1000 has been in production for 12 years, basically the same design and parts. No upgrades to speak of, not even too much of a cosmetic change. In the mean time, if the clutch chudder and other 'shortcomings' of the 1000 are not fixed to match the competition- add ABS & traction control, brakes upgrade, power settings for different conditions, lose the frikken chain, more alternator output, fix basic driveability issues, etc, then I'd say its time to look elsewhere. Yes the Strom is a great platform but to have issues on a new bike is inexcuseable. Suzuki is losing customers to BMW, Ducati, Yamaha, KTM, Moto Guzzi, Triumph in the heavyweight adventure category. I'd say the 2014 Strom needs to be quite an improvement, let's hope they fix basic issues and produce a great competitive bike.
 

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2012 DL 1000 cudder

Petition Clutch Shudder on Suzuki m109r motorcycles

Misery love company / additional business?:headbang:

I can confirm the 2012 DL1000 has the same chudder problem as the other DL1's.
I just swapped my OEM basket for a Werk's one from Terry works great no chudder. My milage is 16K but I started noticing it at 9K and just thought it was just a big twin thing. It just kept getting worse and really bugging especially when riding the tight twistys on Hwy 1 from Cali to Oregon. I love the bike but give us a break Suzuki. WTF. Jim in Ojai ca:confused:
 

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Petition Clutch Shudder on Suzuki m109r motorcycles

Misery love company / additional business?:headbang:
Although I am a M109R owner, I have not had the dreaded clutch shudder yet on my bike. If you read up on it on their forum you will find that the culprit is lack of oil flow to the clutch plates. The fix is to cut a groove into the push pin for more oil to pass. There is also another problem with the tubular nut backing off (different clutch issue).
I am by no means saying that the basket does not exhibit similar issues as the Vee, just that there are no complaints yet that I know of.
 

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The DL1000 has been in production for 12 years, basically the same design and parts. No upgrades to speak of, not even too much of a cosmetic change. In the mean time, if the clutch chudder and other 'shortcomings' of the 1000 are not fixed to match the competition- add ABS & traction control, brakes upgrade, power settings for different conditions, lose the frikken chain, more alternator output, fix basic driveability issues, etc, then I'd say its time to look elsewhere. Yes the Strom is a great platform but to have issues on a new bike is inexcuseable. Suzuki is losing customers to BMW, Ducati, Yamaha, KTM, Moto Guzzi, Triumph in the heavyweight adventure category. I'd say the 2014 Strom needs to be quite an improvement, let's hope they fix basic issues and produce a great competitive bike.
Suzuki is not losing customers to these makes. Let's face it the no. 1 reason people buy a vstrom is the price. If Suzuki adds all these features the price will sky rocket and they will lose customers. I bought a vee for two reasons, the engine and the price. I knew about all the issues and was positive I could fix them for far less money than a Yamaha, BMW, KTM, etc...would cost me. I'm not saying they shouldn't address some of these issues of course they should but their priority should be keeping it priced right. It's their no. 1 advantage over these other makes. If the vee were the same price as a Super Tenere guess what I would be riding? And I'm sure I'm not alone.
 

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Suzuki is not losing customers to these makes. Let's face it the no. 1 reason people buy a vstrom is the price. If Suzuki adds all these features the price will sky rocket and they will lose customers. I bought a vee for two reasons, the engine and the price. I knew about all the issues and was positive I could fix them for far less money than a Yamaha, BMW, KTM, etc...would cost me. I'm not saying they shouldn't address some of these issues of course they should but their priority should be keeping it priced right. It's their no. 1 advantage over these other makes. If the vee were the same price as a Super Tenere guess what I would be riding? And I'm sure I'm not alone.
Well said. I couldn't agree more. I have over 80,000km on my 03 VEE and am still loving it. I few small mods turn this good bike into a great bike.
One thing you didn't mention is dealer network or lack of. part's avalibility and price of part's for BMW, Ducati, KTM, Moto Guzzi, Triumph is an issue for me. Anyone explained how an oil change is carried out on a KTM 950 ADV or a valve adjustment on a Ducati?
I'll keep my VEE any day.
 
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