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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
Updated see post #19

Made my first ride with the Intiminators on a rough two track this weekend, medium to large sized rocks. I was a little disappointed with how harsh the front suspension was. So it's time to mod. I wanted to pull them out to do the 1mm bypass mod for low speed compression on the street anyway (other than that I love them on the street). I'm going to do all the mods that Acerider has documented, any thing else I should try?
My setup now is
Stock Intiminators with stock springs. 5 wt. Amsoil fluid. Fork brace.
I'm a bit surprised at the amount of preload I need to set the sag at 40mm. I think I'm at 2 or 3 lines turned in on the adjusters.
My weight out of the shower is 145lb.
Rear Elka shock.


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Made my first ride with the Intiminators on a rough two track this weekend, medium to large sized rocks. I was a little disappointed with how harsh the front suspension was. So it's time to mod. I wanted to pull them out to do the 1mm bypass mod for low speed compression on the street anyway (other than that I love them on the street). I'm going to do all the mods that Acerider has documented, any thing else I should try?
My setup now is
Stock Intiminators with stock springs. 5 wt. Amsoil fluid. Fork brace.
I'm a bit surprised at the amount of preload I need to set the sag at 40mm. I think I'm at 2 or 3 lines turned in on the adjusters.
My weight out of the shower is 145lb.
Rear Elka shock.


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O.K. 2012 DL 650, I had a 2006 with professionally set up emulators.

2102 on relatively smooth sealed roads with Intiminators and STOCK springs felt a little harsher, but a lot better over bumps and irregularities.

Off road, mine felt good from the get go, the same faint harshness as on seal, but it basically got no worse even on pot holes and badly rutted sections. I went faster - no difference. I could even brake acceptably well on gravel corrugated surfaces which the K6 with emulators would never do. (The K6 would go corrugations them just fine, but braking at the same time, noooo).

Check everything else first. All the AceRider mod does is fix the slightly harsh on smooth seal thing and I suspect trades off some of the ability to soak up the big ones.

First, check that the Intiminators are actually sitting flat at the bottom. Needs a good torch and a better eye, but rotating the springs should seat them.

Oil:
Suspension Fluid - Pvdwiki

Not all 5Wt oils are the same viscosity. Castrol 5W/Motul 5W seem a bit thick to me, but after a couple of weeks - get beat up enough that it smooths out :).

Also, make sure the front isn't binding, which is a possibility , particularly if you fitted a fork brace.

Loosen the LOWER tripple clamp bolts and the front axle pinch bolt, bounce the front end a few times, as far as you can. Retighten.

Check the oil level, with the front fully extended springs (but not spacers or washers) in, oil level should at least 170 mm from the top of the fork leg, ( and probably nearer 190mm).

150mm for the max. travel + 15mm for the space the top cap takes up + air gap left at full compression, probably needs at least 20-25mm air gap. Too high an oil level it will also feel very harsh.

Preload increased with the Intiminators - they take up 15mm at the bottom of the springs, back it right off, wind one in side until you feel it take pressure then one turn in, then set the other the same (There won't be the same definite 'pressure' change on the second one.

You can fix the preload adjuster range by making new (shorter) spaces with PVC pipe. I'm 90kg's and at ~40mm with that sort of adjustment. But for a start, get it feeling right.

That does seem like a lot of preload for your weight. Did you unweight the suspension completely before measuring the baseline ?. (Front wheel off the ground)

Finally after checking everything, ride the bike a couple of 1000k's before you play further, mine smoothed out a lot after a couple of weeks use. A combination of oil thinning and things bedding in I suspect.

Pete
 

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O.K. 2012 DL 650, I had a 2006 with professionally set up emulators.

2102 on relatively smooth sealed roads with Intiminators and STOCK springs felt a little harsher, but a lot better over bumps and irregularities.

Off road, mine felt good from the get go, the same faint harshness as on seal, but it basically got no worse even on pot holes and badly rutted sections. I went faster - no difference. I could even brake acceptably well on gravel corrugated surfaces which the K6 with emulators would never do. (The K6 would go corrugations them just fine, but braking at the same time, noooo).

Check everything else first. All the AceRider mod does is fix the slightly harsh on smooth seal thing and I suspect trades off some of the ability to soak up the big ones.

First, check that the Intiminators are actually sitting flat at the bottom. Needs a good torch and a better eye, but rotating the springs should seat them.

Oil:
Suspension Fluid - Pvdwiki

Not all 5Wt oils are the same viscosity. Castrol 5W/Motul 5W seem a bit thick to me, but after a couple of weeks - get beat up enough that it smooths out :).

Also, make sure the front isn't binding, which is a possibility , particularly if you fitted a fork brace.

Loosen the LOWER tripple clamp bolts and the front axle pinch bolt, bounce the front end a few times, as far as you can. Retighten.

Check the oil level, with the front fully extended springs (but not spacers or washers) in, oil level should at least 170 mm from the top of the fork leg, ( and probably nearer 190mm).

150mm for the max. travel + 15mm for the space the top cap takes up + air gap left at full compression, probably needs at least 20-25mm air gap. Too high an oil level it will also feel very harsh.

Preload increased with the Intiminators - they take up 15mm at the bottom of the springs, back it right off, wind one in side until you feel it take pressure then one turn in, then set the other the same (There won't be the same definite 'pressure' change on the second one.

You can fix the preload adjuster range by making new (shorter) spaces with PVC pipe. I'm 90kg's and at ~40mm with that sort of adjustment. But for a start, get it feeling right.

That does seem like a lot of preload for your weight. Did you unweight the suspension completely before measuring the baseline ?. (Front wheel off the ground)

Finally after checking everything, ride the bike a couple of 1000k's before you play further, mine smoothed out a lot after a couple of weeks use. A combination of oil thinning and things bedding in I suspect.

Pete

Oil level is set with springs out and forks compressed...
 

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Todd, you might be able to find a local machine shop (or a hobbyist with a lathe) to drill a #60 hole down the axis of the Intiminator spindle. That is very close to 1 mm, and the size drill bit they may have in their drill index. Drilling that by hand or even in a drill press would be tricky. If you try, get a couple of #60 bits--they're really easy to break. And if it breaks and sticks in the Intiminator body, you're done. Start the hole with a #1 center drill before you start drilling with the #60 bit. Aluminum swarf (chips) stick to the drill bit, so use either oil or even silicone spray on the bit, and frequently back it out to clear the swarf.

A long 4-finger pick up tool makes it easy to pull the Intiminator out of the fork tube so you can fiddle with it. A thin stainless washer under the top nut of the Intiminator gives a better catch for the pick up tool and makes it even easier.

Experiment with different shim combinations in the Intiminator. Even try reducing the shims a lot, feel the result, then adding shims back in until you get the feel you like. Be sure the sealing ring around the edge of the Intiminator isn't too tight in the bore of the fork tube. If it is causing drag you can trim the ends if the ring to get it to slide smoothly.

Center drill:


Pick up tool:
 

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Discussion Starter #5
I set the oil level with the springs out. Can't find my notes and can't remember the height. What is the factory setting, or do they only give the amount (cc).

I thought Acerider said more high speed compliance was to be had with the mod to the four holes on the upper body. By increasing the size, I think he only did two of the four. I need to read it agin.


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Stock intiminator with oblong orifices (high-velocity bleed holes) pictures here:


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Ladder 106 (from ADVRIDER)'s enlargement mod on 2 of the oblong orifices and his comments:
<<<<<<<<<<< After testing the shim stack for the Transalp, a few have been sold and the results have been very positive. But some riders report that they'd like a softer high speed and medium speed action. After many trials with different shims (I actually got down to one .015 and one 0.10 at one point) I'm convinced that the shims do not do anything for high speed bleed and little for medium speed bleed.

To date, I've had the best improvement with modifying the holes under the inertia valve very similar to your mod.

I did something a bit different, however. Reasoning that if I wanted more bleed on medium speed impacts the inertia valve would have to have an effect EARLIER in it's travel. Coming from the world of 1970's MX I thought I could just raise the port (similar to lowering the exhaust port in a 2-strok) height of the valve and accomplish two things: (a) allow the inertia valve to open the holes earlier reacting to a smaller impact and (b) increase the overall size of the bleed holes to allow softer high speed damping.>>>>>>>>>>>>>



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Note the extra washer inserted below to give something for the "claw tool"to grab.


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The enlargement of oblong holes would give a bit more bleed on bigger hits. IMO and with benefit of hindsight, the additional benefit is only barely noticeable. ( high-velocity damping over bigger amplitude bumps)

the 1 mm axial bleed hole on the intiminator body first mentioned by RangerRon on advice from Ricor makes the biggest difference on small bumps and dips or what i called surface irregularities - the bike feels a lot smoother going over it rather than feeling all those small irregularities. Yes you do pay a penalty in having a bigger brake dive - but IMO, intiminator works every well there, a a little worse than designed is still very good. If want the feeling of almost zero brake dive, you might not want to do this mod.

The 1 mm axial hole is very hard to drill with hand drill - i broke 4 before i give up. you would really a proper drill press or lathe to do properly. I end up paying the local suspension guy $20 to do it and he broke 2 cheap bits do it. At the end - he used his lathe and starts with a bigger drill bit and only use the 1 mm to do the last 5mm depth.

If someone can find a suitably softer spring, you would be able to tune when the high-velocity bleed start to happen
 

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I'm I reading this right? The enlargement of the oblong holes is barely noticeable in high speed hits.


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kind of - bump absorbing damping from hitter bigger bumps and/or at faster vehicle speed is increased marginally improved IMO. I always thought hi-velocity damping on intiminator wasnt too bad when encountering bigger size bump once you get shimms set up correctly

To me it was always the hi-velocity damping over the smaller stuff that was an issue or characteristic of intiminator when compared to similar set up emulator in PeterW's old bike. This is where the axial bleed hole makes the biggest difference. A lot smoother over those tiny bumps or surface irregularities which one frequently encounters. The low velocity damping penalty is minimal.
 

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Ace, what do you think about trimming the overlapping edge on the aluminum collar over the inertia valve? That might allow oil flow sooner...the inertia valve would have less distance to go down before the ports were open. I know, we're getting into very fine details here.
 

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Oil level is set with springs out and forks compressed...
Oil level is specced with springs out and forks compressed yes, but it's a lot easier to measure with springs in and fully extended, well, it is if you have a centre stand. So do it once by the book, pop the spings in, let the front rise, measure it again.

Just pointing out, if you put in aftermarket springs, the coils very likely have a different coil diameter :), which changes the air-space when fully compressed and that's the critical measurement. The springs in measurement will be closer to accurate .


Also, for the OP, what were you expecting ?.
You aren't going to get light dirt-bike like compliance, but you should feel it's a lot more stable, and no jarring in the wrists over bumps, and the brakes should work decently, even when it's lumpy. I expected (and got) a lot less jarring ride and the ability to brake and steer reliably off road but I do still have to slow down for the big ones. You aren't going to get Dakar like performance without more travel.

Pete
 

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i realised i did finish posting what Ladder106 said:

<<<<<I changed the height with a small riffler file and only modified two of the four holes.

As I raised the top of the hole, I used compressed air to test the valve was not bleeding air with the inertia valve in it's normal "at-rest" position. Surprizingly, I was able to raise the hole quite a bit without a "leak"

On the bike, the inertia valve now opens sooner on smaller impacts and I swear it's also softer on large shoe-box sized rocks. I read what the Ricor boys had to say about the size of the vertical tube being the limiting factor but that's NOT what I'm feeling while riding.

I wrote to Ricor and documented my changes. I have not heard back from them for the past week. I do know that they are in the initial stages of rear shock development and are incredibly busy, buying new machine tools and hiring people. So if you have not received any feedback from them recently, give them a bit more time. It will be interesting to see what they have to say about my changes. (They'll probably tell me I just wrecked a pair of valves>>>>>>>>

----------


I agree with him and if i am doing the thing again, i would be doing what he did instead just butchering it like i have done. It makes perfect sense, well at least in theory. How much it makes a difference in reality i cant say. I think the best way Riccor could have make that, is a long (Y axis) orifice so depending on the amount of the "bump", the amount of bleed flow through.

The point i wanted to make is that this modification would have more to do with mid to larger size "bump", the tiny stuff is more rescued by the additional 1mm axial bleed hole. Maybe Ricor will incorporate that in some of their future design as it is they who suggest it after complaint from Ranger Ron and it was something my local suspension suggest after we discuss the characteristics of intiminator.
 

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Yep Pete, things work okay until you start to run out of travel - stock it only has about 140mm of actual travel, not really that much more than sports bike. use a zip tie to monitor your travel.

OhioPT did a mod which lengthen the fork travel to 180mm (read his thread), through increasing the damper rod length - i dont have such long legs, but i did something similar about 1 year ago to increase by another 15mm and setting it mostly for rebound travel to deal better with the pothole galore we have here... That extra 15mm of travel is noticeable for me... I didnt have access nor the skill to do it myself, but i paid a local machinist $45 and $35 for a spare damper rod for him to do a "cut and paste"
 

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Discussion Starter #13
Oil level is specced with springs out and forks compressed yes, but it's a lot easier to measure with springs in and fully extended, well, it is if you have a centre stand. So do it once by the book, pop the spings in, let the front rise, measure it again.

Just pointing out, if you put in aftermarket springs, the coils very likely have a different coil diameter :), which changes the air-space when fully compressed and that's the critical measurement. The springs in measurement will be closer to accurate .


Also, for the OP, what were you expecting ?.
You aren't going to get light dirt-bike like compliance, but you should feel it's a lot more stable, and no jarring in the wrists over bumps, and the brakes should work decently, even when it's lumpy. I expected (and got) a lot less jarring ride and the ability to brake and steer reliably off road but I do still have to slow down for the big ones. You aren't going to get Dakar like performance without more travel.

Pete
Not looking for dirt bike performance. What I'm experiencing is jarring over medium to large wash board rocks, at speeds around 10 MPH.

Starting to wonder if the oil level is to high. I removed the springs carefully not to loose much oil and measured the hight fully extended, with the forks on the bike. Sucked out most of the old oil, installed the Intiminators and refilled to that level. I'm at 259mm from the top. I need to remove the forks and check the level compressed and see where the level is.


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Yeah, that's why I suggested you check 'other things' first. The problem you are complaining about just isn't an issue on my bike.

I'm not getting jarring at all, O.K. if it's big enough I still feel the bump, but it's pretty smooth. Car park at work has 3" speed control measures, at low speed the front tends to feel like it's rolling over a rock, I feel the bike go up and down, but it's smooth - as the speed goes up, there's barely anything. Same thing on dirt, low speed, yes the front goes up and down, but not jarring, at speed it gets smoother.

You are running 5wt or lighter oil ?. The intiminators are designed to use light oil so that the original damping circuits (designed around ~10wt) have little or no effect.

Pete
 

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todd900ss,
your intiminator has the current shim set? 0.012x5 - should be printed on the packaging.

If it is not too much trouble, try probably tipping out all old oil and fill with the Amsoil 5wt. A bit of mix with the stock fork oil might be ok for heavier folks like us, but lean mean fighting machine of 145lbs :mrgreen: might require a softer setting.
 

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Give them a call maybe they still sell them
 

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Discussion Starter #19
Update

Removed the front forks last weekend. Removed the springs and checked the fluid level with the forks compressed, 150mm on the dot. So the 259mm with the forks on the bike fully extended is a good number.

Drained all the oil and flushed and refilled to 150mm with Amsoil 5w.

I decided to only make one mod at a time and did the 1mm bypass, actually
.040, reassembled and test drove all this passed week on the street. The low speed harshness on what looks to be a smooth street but is not(so read very small imperfections) is still there :confused:

Yesterday I did 50 miles of FS roads with the same medium to large rocks and washouts. Interestingly is seemed somewhat better, but not great. So is this due to the bypass? Or full 5w not a mix of the 5w and factory oil as before.

Also backed the low and high speed compression adjustments all the way off on the Elka in steps. This also helped the overall feeling.

The front still needs some work. One thing that has me :confused: is the stock front springs. I can adjust 10 to 15mm of preload and still have the same sag. Maybe due to the stock progressive springs?? At my weight I should be ok with them. Really don't know what to try next, straight rate springs? Replace some of the .012 shims with .010?
 

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Update

Removed the front forks last weekend. Removed the springs and checked the fluid level with the forks compressed, 150mm on the dot. So the 259mm with the forks on the bike fully extended is a good number.

Drained all the oil and flushed and refilled to 150mm with Amsoil 5w.

I decided to only make one mod at a time and did the 1mm bypass, actually
.040, reassembled and test drove all this passed week on the street. The low speed harshness on what looks to be a smooth street but is not(so read very small imperfections) is still there :confused:

Yesterday I did 50 miles of FS roads with the same medium to large rocks and washouts. Interestingly is seemed somewhat better, but not great. So is this due to the bypass? Or full 5w not a mix of the 5w and factory oil as before.

Also backed the low and high speed compression adjustments all the way off on the Elka in steps. This also helped the overall feeling.

The front still needs some work. One thing that has me :confused: is the stock front springs. I can adjust 10 to 15mm of preload and still have the same sag. Maybe due to the stock progressive springs?? At my weight I should be ok with them. Really don't know what to try next, straight rate springs? Replace some of the .012 shims with .010?
Not sure what to suggest that you try next, but hurry up so that I can get started on my front forks. :mrgreen:

I'm just a bit heavier than you :confused: and already know that I want straight-rate springs. I'm most likely going to go one size lighter than what the spring calculator says since I'm looking for more compliance. I am hoping that the intiminator will give me the control of compression speed that I am looking for ).
 
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