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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Just did a TBS and needed to adjust the throttle stop screw to set the idle speed. I have the factory manual and it shows a nice phillips screw right near the left side frame. Sounded easy. Although mine doesn't have such a convenient adjuster. I looked in vain trying to find this dream adjuster (actually being sarcastic since every bike I've ever worked on, carbureted or not, has an adjuster conveniently located). The only location I saw to set the throttle stop screw/idle adjust (used interchangeably in the manual) was right at the throttle cable cam on the front throttle body on the left side. This was buried behind the frame, under the airbox, and behind the radiator so deep that needlenose pliers couldn't even get in there. And there appeared to be no screw head to adjust even if I could. Instead there was simply a threaded, headless screw with a nut to the rear. I managed to (barely) get the nut to loosen, adjust, then re-tighten after inadvertently teaching the neighbor kids some new adult vocabulary.

Anyone else experienced this or can advise an easier way? Hopefully I missed something. It looks like possibly with the airbox off, the adjustment could be easier, but why should you have to go through the hassle for a simple and somewhat common adjustment? I tried searching the forum, but didn't find anything relevant.
 

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TBS and idle adjustments on 2007 and up are done way differently than previous years. You have to hook up the bike to a scan tool type of device that adjusts the idle and sets the bike into a proper mode to sync the throttle bodies. Syncing is then done at the idle air screws not the linkage.
 

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Also. the idle speed on '07 and later 650s is not user adjustable. It is set by the idle speed control valve which is ECM controlled.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
D'oh. I have the factory manual through K8 and just found the procedure for the later models in the back. Thanks.
 

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At the risk of piling on...

There's a label on the left side of the frame near the engine where along with the valve lash specs and some other basic maintenance information there's a statement indicating that the idle speed is electronically controlled and is non-adjustable.

I've had my bike for a year and half and I just noticed the label a few weeks ago.
 

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Yeah for the simplicity :rolleyes: of k6 and earlier.
 

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Yeah for the simplicity :rolleyes: of k6 and earlier.
I took the K7 in for a TBS at 41,000 miles. The difference is barely detectable. I've never had to adjust the idle speed. It is always right on. I don't miss my old K5 one bit and love the ABS brakes on the K7. I also don't miss setting points dwell. or ignition timing or changing spark plugs every second oil change. Simple isn't always better.
 

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I took the K7 in for a TBS at 41,000 miles. The difference is barely detectable. I've never had to adjust the idle speed. It is always right on. I don't miss my old K5 one bit and love the ABS brakes on the K7. I also don't miss setting points dwell. or ignition timing or changing spark plugs every second oil change. Simple isn't always better.
No, but if you ever have to do a valve adjustment, you'll need to do a TBS and won't be able to do that yourself without going to the dealer.

I will be able to do that myself, and that is something I like.

However, I would like to have your ABS brakes.
 

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I had a TBS done at 40,000 miles. I had one valve close up .001" in three checks. I ought to be okay for another 40,000 miles.
 

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I had a TBS done at 40,000 miles. I had one valve close up .001" in three checks. I ought to be okay for another 40,000 miles.
What did your dealer charge you for the TBS ? I assume you adjusted the valves yourself.

You might have a good local dealership. The one down here seems awfully high.
 

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The dealer charged $77 per hour. I'm taking the plastic off the bike if I do it again. It was about $100 and the bike came out with two loose screws. I was told it was 2" of mercury off. I hardly noticed a difference.
 

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I had one valve close up .001" in three checks. I ought to be okay for another 40,000 miles.
Did you ever have to make any valve adjustments on the 650? I'm only a couple of thousand miles away from needing to do it on the wife's bike. I'll admit I'm a little intimidated about having to make an actual adjustment. Those chains look a lot more complicated than the gears on the 1K. I'd like to think I can dig in and just confirm everything is good to keep going.
 

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Did you ever have to make any valve adjustments on the 650?
I never have. There is one rear intake that is a no-go for .005" but a go for .004". It's been that way from 17,000 miles to 40,000 miles. It's the only one near minimum. I've had one exhaust valve close up .001" since the first check but it is still in mid range and is the only movement I've recorded.
 

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I never have.
I know you talk to a lot of people. Is that the common finding on the 650A?

I worked my way through the first one on my Vee without too much difficulty. Should I be overly concerned about the differences between the two engines (gear vs chain)?
 

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I only have anecdotal data. Maybe it ought to be polled. While the Wee job is definitely more involved, I really see it as more steps rather than more training or expertize being required. More steps does mean more things to go wrong and more things to check so I see the main difference being one of time. There is also the penalty for doing something wrong and not checking properly. I got the timing chain in the wrong position on a CB500 once. The real mistake was forcing the wrench when rotating the crankshaft. That bent all the exhaust valves. Turning the engine over manually and not forcing anything would be a step that should not be missed. People have buttoned things up without doing that and just hot the starter button. It seems more common to have the plug fire on the exhaust stroke if the proper procedures are not followed than it is do damage on the Wee though.

I did create a poll at http://www.stromtrooper.com/forums/showthread.php?t=43389
 

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Maybe we could use a sticky for pulling the cams and successfully reinstalling. My biggest worry would be keeping the chain alignment with the crank. The manual doesn't offer any insight. There's a pic for counting links to get the cams correct to each other, but when you put the chain guide tensioner back in you could be off at the crank. You would know by the mark on the flywheel, but you'd still have to redo.
 

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Maybe we could use a sticky for pulling the cams and successfully reinstalling. My biggest worry would be keeping the chain alignment with the crank. The manual doesn't offer any insight. There's a pic for counting links to get the cams correct to each other, but when you put the chain guide tensioner back in you could be off at the crank. You would know by the mark on the flywheel, but you'd still have to redo.
That's the part that concerns me, too.

I know there are marks on each of the cam chain sprockets, and I know about the mark on the timing chain cover. I think these are the three marks that have to be in alignment irrespective of how the chain wraps around them.

But when you re-apply the tension of the chain tensioner to the timing chain after re-installing the cam, you could force these three marks out of synchronization and have to change the positon of the cam sprocket under the chain to counter for this effect. Then you have to re-apply the tensioner to see if all the marks are in alignment.

In other words, you might have to play with the cam sprocket position before/after the application of the chain tensioner to ensure that everthing is lining up properly. You also probably need to find the proper object to stick under the cam chain when the cam is removed so the chain slack does cause the chain to become unraveled from the crankshaft sprocket. Not to say that you could not get it started back on the crank, but it would avoid this headache if you could keep it threaded on there without i coming off the crankshaft sprocket.

All of this is speculation on my part. I haven't done the job yet, but from the threads I have read on this procedure, I'm wondering if these might be some of the finer points of doing the cam removal and installation.

P.S. I think some people may be using a permanent marker to mark the chain to the cam sprockets, which may be the best way to go provided the oil does run off the mark. Either way, if any sprocket is as much as one tooth off, that engine will run like crap, or not at all.
 

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The simple way is to do one cam at a time, and mark the chain to the gear as a reference. Just make sure that you hold a little tension on the chain so that it can not fall off of the crank sprocket. Just hold the chain up while you remove the cam, and place a large screwdriver handle, etc under the chain where the cam sprocket was. It will be obvious when you are looking at it. At that point you are screwed, and would have to set the cam timing with the complicated procedure in the manual.
 
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