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Horsepower is like crack, once you have some you always want more. I keep eyeing the ZH2, they raised the price this year so I am most likely out, but what if? :ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO:
 

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I actually think torque is king for the rush.
 

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2011 650
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My experience is quite the opposite. Horsepower is about acceleration at speed. On interstates, it's just not that important. You'll get to your target speed eventually, maybe slower on some bikes than others, but plenty fast enough. There's seldom a need to accelerate briskly on interstates. You're just cruising. All you need is a vehicle that can maintain an appropriate speed, with some to spare.

The place where horsepower to weight ratio (which is what we really should be talking about) really matters to me is when I'm passing a dawdler on 2 lane roads. "Enough" for me is whatever it takes to make a brisk, authoritative pass with no drama, in whatever space my sight line safely affords -- which in mountainous areas, may not be much -- without spending more time in the oncoming lane than absolutely necessary.

For that, my Wee is more than adequate; its acceleration is plenty authoritative when it needs to be, and definitely faster than most 4 wheelers. Any more would unnecessary to me. If I ever pulled a wheelie, I'm quite sure I would sh*t my pants.

That's just me. There are as many answers as there are people here. :cool:
I don't disagree with you at all. More HP just usually means less throttle adjustment is all. :)
 

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2011 650
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I owned one of the bricks ('91 K75S), and lordy, did it ever have driveline issues. I rode it for 18000 miles (from around 72k to 90k or so, and when I finally parted it out, I calculated that it had cost me over US$.80 per mile to ride (counting fuel and all consumables, as well as endless repairs). Insane. I didn't know the backstory. Maybe if I'd ridden it gently...?
Oh that opens a whole memory hole, right there. There was a consensus that a batch of K75s had a deformed transmission bell housing (for those that don't know, they had a driveline much like a car, with a dry clutch even), either from a shipping accident, or manufacturing error. This means you could replace parts until the end of time, but the misalignment would eventually wreck the splines again. Frequent "spline lubes" were the solution for many, but what a PITA that was! Typical BMW would never acknowledge the issue, of course. Whole cottage industries popped up to remedy quirks like these, including remanufactured input shafts with splines that weren't too short!
 

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Seems like there is natural assumption of owning just one bike. Which is everyone's paradigm until they decide to get a second, third, or fourth bike, etc. But what happens then is you find out your favorite power to weight ratio is for different activities. Grab your sport touring beast for a ride in the mountains. Grab your Norton Commando for short back road rides, vintage events, or meet up for dinner. Pull out the dual sport for ride to the grocery store or camping.

I need a bigger garage.
 

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2011 650
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Seems like there is natural assumption of owning just one bike. Which is everyone's paradigm until they decide to get a second, third, or fourth bike, etc. But what happens then is you find out your favorite power to weight ratio is for different activities. Grab your sport touring beast for a ride in the mountains. Grab your Norton Commando for short back road rides, vintage events, or meet up for dinner. Pull out the dual sport for ride to the grocery store or camping.

I need a bigger garage.
My Vespa LX150 has, I think, 12 HP :)
 

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2021 VStrom 650 XT
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I've had a small gauntlet of bikes with a wide ranging power to weight ratios. Besides my '21 650, I have a Ninja 1000 SX. That bike feels like a total beast to me. It is extremely fast. It feels too fast on urban roads. But out in the open roads, or highway, it feels fantastic. So much midrange and incredible top end rush. I feel invincible on that bike. It's not a PITA to ride at all because it does have a gentle throttle response. The biggest PITA are all the slow vehicles around me, which is just about everything! In my part of the USA, cruising speeds on the highway is around 80-85 mph and the Ninja is perfect for that and has plenty of reserve.

OTOH, I also had a Suzuki DR650: About 45 rwhp (modified) and 375 lbs. wet. That bike was a blast to ride. Nowhere near as fast as my Ninja 1000 but a lot of fun on anything but long highway rides. It wasn't happy above 80 mph but was perfectly fine at 75.

Now I have the '21 650 XT, which bridges the gap between my DR650 and my Ninja 1000. Per Cycle World website, my 650 puts out about 68 rwhp and weighs in at 485 lbs. wet. This to me seems like the sweet spot. It's fun in urban riding, a lot of fun in mountain twisty pavement, and very comfortable and capable out on the highway's between 80-85 mph. It will cruise at 90 mph smoothly if I wanted to without feeling winded. Off road though, I don't need that much power. The DR650's power was actually more than plenty for off road (and I never used it all out there).
 

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We get so focused on the motorcycle's peak hp and we use that number as the indicator of the bike's power, but we usually overlook the horsepower throughout the full rpm range because it's hard to put a number on a power curve. The important horsepower number which we should be concerned about, is in the rpm range which we operate the motorcycle. Peak hp at banshee rpm is meaningless if the engine is never operated at that rpm. Dyno graphs are semi-informative but do not always show the full picture because the dyno runs are created with a wide open throttle.
 
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'14 DL1000A ~_/) ~ '14 GSX1300R
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Tracked the Busa yesterday.
A bike's horsepower might have a relationship to riding enviro
In some conditions, 'to much' [sic] can feel just right
 

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.Most riders cannot use a Ninja 250 and all its 20 something HP to its max potential.

Driver to engine builder : We need more HP!
Engine builder to driver : Did you let off the gas going into turns?
Driver to engine builder : Yes!
Engine builder to driver : You have more than enough HP!
 

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We get so focused on the motorcycle's peak hp and we use that number as the indicator of the bike's power, but we usually overlook the horsepower throughout the full rpm range because it's hard to put a number on a power curve. The important horsepower number which we should be concerned about, is in the rpm range which we operate the motorcycle. Peak hp at banshee rpm is meaningless if the engine is never operated at that rpm. Dyno graphs are semi-informative but do not always show the full picture because the dyno runs are created with a wide open throttle.
Horsepower isn't measured it's calculated from torque that is measured.

A power curve showing torque is a better indication of how the motor is to ride.
 
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but we usually overlook the horsepower throughout the full rpm range because it's hard to put a number on a power curve.
And why I absolutely love my Norton Commando. No motorcycle is more pleasant to me than that bike between just above idle and 4,500 rpm. Of course you can't actually see anything at idle. You eye balls are bouncing around inside your skull way too much to focus, and above 5K rpm the bikes shows it's age a little bit, but that sweat spot is heaven.
 

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Horsepower isn't measured it's calculated from torque that is measured.

A power curve showing torque is a better indication of how the motor is to ride.
I am a ME and am in full understanding of the hp calculation of torque & rpm.

I avoid the whole topic of torque x rpm x K = hp because I grew tired of explaining the calculation after about 149 times and having it still misunderstood by about 147 of the people. Often times, their responses are based on a new set of ridiculously impossible physics.

Anyway, I simply say "horsepower at X rpm" and people are more likely to understand.
 
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It's really, how much do you want to pay? It seems the more HP, the more money the bikes cost. I think 80-100 is pretty good and probably enough. But, torque is king.

We should add, how much torque below 5,000 RPM is enough? I don't know how to do the equation, but I'd want enough HP to give me the torque I'd like.
 

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I love a large displacement bike and the thrill of jumping after a stop especially during a country ride. Do I need more then 60 HP probably not. But do I like it. If they sell it and I can afford it I will buy it.
 

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I've done that several times, not with the aim of reducing horsepower but in the interests of improving rideability. Getting more low end at the expense of top end power for example.
2-strokes in particular were easy meat there, it was relatively easy (and inexpensive) to pick up low end torque and on bikes that intrinsically had low torque the sacrifice in power at RPM you wouldn't use if you had any sense was never a loss. Pretty much everyone else went the other way there.

In most cases that's also made the bikes faster in practice anyway because a stumble at say 3-4k really screws with acceleration. With the 2-strokes in particular the differences in real world performance were really startling.
 

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That was the magic on the CBF1000 they took the 160 hp Fireblade race bike and turned it into a wonderful torque monster with 100 HP. Most riders got a gear indicator after market as the damn thing would pull from 2000 rpm in any gear and a nice thrill at 3k and up.
Rectangle Slope Font Parallel Pattern

twisting that throttle scratched that itch and never did find the top end of that bike.
Combined with C-ABS was a treat but too thirsty, smallish tank and few farkles on available outside of Europe. Light for it's category and plain jane dash no electronic aids beyond C-ABS
honda-cbf1000-10.jpg

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I did some 3 days tours but the very vanilla CB500x proved the better distance machine.
But ZERO thrill on the throttle.
 
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