Pretty sure it's mainly going to be software so probably have to write new code and flash the ECU to make it work.
..Tom
..Tom
Hey Electrical Engineers - Can We Design and build a Cruise Control?
This is outside my area of competence, but on ride-by-wire bikes, most of the mechanical and electro-mechanical components for cruise control are already there. Can we design and build a cruise control for these bikes as a community project? Maybe using PLDs.
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Does the 800 come with cruise as an option?
Not yet. And I'm not sure they will.
You can see here how the DL1050 CC is set up.
The 800 would need at least a new right hand controller as part of the package.
I contacted MCCruise today. They don't have access to an 800 yet, but they have already made units for other Suzuki ride-by-wire bikes. Pricey though.
You can see here how the DL1050 CC is set up.
The 800 would need at least a new right hand controller as part of the package.
I contacted MCCruise today. They don't have access to an 800 yet, but they have already made units for other Suzuki ride-by-wire bikes. Pricey though.
That's also a pet peeve of mine. Having had lots of bikes with cruise control, it was a huge concession coming back to a bike without it. It's just silly that Suzuki still doesn't offer the same feature on the 650/800 as the 1050. People would absolutely pay for the feature.
McCruise proved it is do-able as an add-on feature. In my unqualified mind in is a simple process.
The throttle sends a signal to a reciever that controls throttle position. All we need to do is put a device between the throttle sending unit and the reciever. The unit passes through the throttle signal until the unit is activated. I could write the program right now in Basic program language (and then throw it away because nothing is written in basic.)
Or we just wait and pay a company like MCCruise a ~$1,000 for a kit. I think a community project would be a hell of a lot more fun and way cheaper too.
The throttle sends a signal to a reciever that controls throttle position. All we need to do is put a device between the throttle sending unit and the reciever. The unit passes through the throttle signal until the unit is activated. I could write the program right now in Basic program language (and then throw it away because nothing is written in basic.)
Or we just wait and pay a company like MCCruise a ~$1,000 for a kit. I think a community project would be a hell of a lot more fun and way cheaper too.
Having all the safety features could be the issue.
Clutch switch, brake light switch, over speed, under speed.
I know my MC cruise goes through a number of checks before it can be set.
EG; it will not set until I have used my brakes, it needs to know the brake light system is good before it can be set.
Clutch switch, brake light switch, over speed, under speed.
I know my MC cruise goes through a number of checks before it can be set.
EG; it will not set until I have used my brakes, it needs to know the brake light system is good before it can be set.
Do you want an electronic throttle lock, or a true cruise control?
The distinction being, that an e-throttle-lock would only maintain a set throttle position.
True CC would maintain a target bike speed, if possible, given the terrain and its throttle authority.
True CC would require some input to monitor bike speed, and a way to adjust throttle as needed. As I understand it, the MC Cruise kits for previous Vstroms do this, by using a servo to physically move the throttle cables.
Getting the cooperation of the ECU may be too heavy of a lift. Suzuki isn't likely to give you access to the code + other info needed to change ECU firmware or software.
Even so, it should be possible to have true CC without rewriting the ECU. You'd only need to lie to it.
In a throttle-by-wire situation, maybe we could generate a "Fake" throttle grip signal, to tell ECU the desired throttle setting, regardless of what the throttle grip is actually doing.
That's assuming that Suzuki hasn't purposefully obfuscated/complicated the way the throttle grip reports its position to the ECU. TBD.
Worst case, we'd need a servo (stepper motor probably) to physically change throttle grip position to get the desired RPM's.
We could either hijack an existing speed sensor signal, or use something else (selected gear and RPM) as a proxy.
This sounds like a software problem as much as hardware. I expect it could be done with limited processing power, maybe a Raspberry Pi or even an Arduino.
Some fairly "slow" polling rate (60 Hz) may be more than enough for safe and efficient operation.
The distinction being, that an e-throttle-lock would only maintain a set throttle position.
True CC would maintain a target bike speed, if possible, given the terrain and its throttle authority.
True CC would require some input to monitor bike speed, and a way to adjust throttle as needed. As I understand it, the MC Cruise kits for previous Vstroms do this, by using a servo to physically move the throttle cables.
Getting the cooperation of the ECU may be too heavy of a lift. Suzuki isn't likely to give you access to the code + other info needed to change ECU firmware or software.
Even so, it should be possible to have true CC without rewriting the ECU. You'd only need to lie to it.
In a throttle-by-wire situation, maybe we could generate a "Fake" throttle grip signal, to tell ECU the desired throttle setting, regardless of what the throttle grip is actually doing.
That's assuming that Suzuki hasn't purposefully obfuscated/complicated the way the throttle grip reports its position to the ECU. TBD.
Worst case, we'd need a servo (stepper motor probably) to physically change throttle grip position to get the desired RPM's.
We could either hijack an existing speed sensor signal, or use something else (selected gear and RPM) as a proxy.
This sounds like a software problem as much as hardware. I expect it could be done with limited processing power, maybe a Raspberry Pi or even an Arduino.
Some fairly "slow" polling rate (60 Hz) may be more than enough for safe and efficient operation.
We had similar situation with cars when they started using "drive by wire" electronic throttles. The situation was the same, the hardware was already on the vehicle (minus the CC switch of course). People thought they could just buy the switching and switch it over but it was the software in the ECM that was the issue and the car maker wouldn't allow it to be "flashed" into the ECM if that vehicle had not been built with the CC option. No one I can think of every found a "hack" to get it to work.
My Honda Fit has a GPS chip in its radio but it will not display maps due to the software not being there. Its common practice on these such things, you pay for it when its new or you don't get it. Of course BMW cars, noted for milking you for every little option, now has a lot of features like heated seats, etc. fitted to every vehicle when its built but they wanted you to pay for a "subscription" in order for them to turn it on. (Done via cell phone or wireless connection built into the car).
Its the new world of electronics that we live in.
My Honda Fit has a GPS chip in its radio but it will not display maps due to the software not being there. Its common practice on these such things, you pay for it when its new or you don't get it. Of course BMW cars, noted for milking you for every little option, now has a lot of features like heated seats, etc. fitted to every vehicle when its built but they wanted you to pay for a "subscription" in order for them to turn it on. (Done via cell phone or wireless connection built into the car).
Its the new world of electronics that we live in.
I wouldn't give up right away.
Yamaha assuredly did not cooperative with Ivan of Ivan's Performance Products, and yet he's figured out how to reprogram all years of FJR ECU, adding features as well as changing how existing features work (such as, ability to engage CC below 3rd gear).
Yamaha assuredly did not cooperative with Ivan of Ivan's Performance Products, and yet he's figured out how to reprogram all years of FJR ECU, adding features as well as changing how existing features work (such as, ability to engage CC below 3rd gear).
The bike is "Canbus" so all the inputs you mention above are available in the system. I'm sure the almost all of the existing switches on the handlebar can be repurposed for different functions as that is what is happening on my DL1050. I'm sure it will be a matter of software for the most part.Having all the safety features could be the issue.
Clutch switch, brake light switch, over speed, under speed.
I know my MC cruise goes through a number of checks before it can be set.
EG; it will not set until I have used my brakes, it needs to know the brake light system is good before it can be set.
..Tom
I want cruise so bad I’m contemplating trading.
Way back in another life all I had to do was mention it to one of the electrical engineers in my group and they would say "I spent six years to get masters degree, of course I can do that." And then they would.
MCCruise's approach seems to be what I was thinking. A new device that passes the normal signal through when not in use that takes over when engaged. That means the stock ECU is unchanged and the new parts would be plug and play. The new software would be in the programmable language controller (PLC) and the language would probably/might be Ladder Logic which is easy to learn and use.
I know this may sound riducules at first glance, but I wonder if ChatGBT could write the prigram. Since it is CanBus system, it might even be able to select teh components. I'll go try.
BRB
MCCruise's approach seems to be what I was thinking. A new device that passes the normal signal through when not in use that takes over when engaged. That means the stock ECU is unchanged and the new parts would be plug and play. The new software would be in the programmable language controller (PLC) and the language would probably/might be Ladder Logic which is easy to learn and use.
I know this may sound riducules at first glance, but I wonder if ChatGBT could write the prigram. Since it is CanBus system, it might even be able to select teh components. I'll go try.
BRB
This was not helpful, but I bet it will be one day.
Please design a cruise control for a ride by wire Suzuki motorcycle that uses CANbus.
Designing a cruise control system for a ride-by-wire Suzuki motorcycle that utilizes the CAN bus (Controller Area Network) involves integrating various components and implementing control logic. Here's a high-level overview of the system:
Components:
It is important to note that implementing a cruise control system on a ride-by-wire motorcycle requires expertise and a deep understanding of the motorcycle's electrical system. This description provides a high-level overview, but actual implementation details may vary based on the specific motorcycle model and its compatibility with aftermarket modifications. It is recommended to consult with a professional technician or engineer experienced in motorcycle electronics for proper integration and installation.
Please design a cruise control for a ride by wire Suzuki motorcycle that uses CANbus.
Designing a cruise control system for a ride-by-wire Suzuki motorcycle that utilizes the CAN bus (Controller Area Network) involves integrating various components and implementing control logic. Here's a high-level overview of the system:
Components:
- Control Module: This module will act as the brain of the cruise control system. It receives input from the rider and communicates with other motorcycle systems via the CAN bus.
- Throttle Actuator: The throttle actuator is responsible for controlling the throttle position electronically. It receives signals from the control module to adjust the throttle opening.
- Speed Sensor: A speed sensor is required to measure the current speed of the motorcycle accurately. It can be either a wheel speed sensor or an ABS sensor.
- User Interface: A user interface is needed for the rider to set and adjust the desired cruising speed. This interface can be implemented using buttons or switches on the handlebars.
- CAN Bus Communication: The control module must be capable of sending and receiving messages over the CAN bus to interact with other systems on the motorcycle.
- Activation: The rider activates the cruise control system by engaging a dedicated switch on the handlebars.
- Speed Setting: The rider sets the desired cruising speed using the user interface. This input is sent to the control module.
- Speed Monitoring: The control module continuously receives speed data from the speed sensor via the CAN bus.
- Throttle Adjustment: Based on the desired cruising speed and the actual speed, the control module calculates the required throttle position and sends commands to the throttle actuator to adjust the throttle accordingly.
- Overrides and Safety: The system should include safety features such as automatic disengagement if the rider applies the brakes, clutch, or throttle, or if the speed exceeds a certain threshold.
- Disengagement: The rider can disengage the cruise control system by either manually disengaging the switch or by applying the brakes.
It is important to note that implementing a cruise control system on a ride-by-wire motorcycle requires expertise and a deep understanding of the motorcycle's electrical system. This description provides a high-level overview, but actual implementation details may vary based on the specific motorcycle model and its compatibility with aftermarket modifications. It is recommended to consult with a professional technician or engineer experienced in motorcycle electronics for proper integration and installation.
Automotive systems were locked down tight. They used some pretty sophisticated systems to keep people out. A lot of this was due to warranty and legal issues, someone would hack the system then something bad would happen and they would blame the car maker for not warning them. (happens a lot).
Anything is possible they say so if someone really wants to break into the system I suppose then can and in fact have. But then another approach is to work around the system. Tap into the key inputs and then find a way to over ride the throttle control . I would bet this is easier to do on a motorcycle than a car.
Since "drive-by-wire" is so common now there are companies, and individuals, who have invested the time into figuring out a "work around" for the cruise. Some have swapped parts from a similar vehicle with CC and then managed to get into the vehicles software and fool it. Its all about how much time and effort one wants to invest in this I guess.
Anything is possible they say so if someone really wants to break into the system I suppose then can and in fact have. But then another approach is to work around the system. Tap into the key inputs and then find a way to over ride the throttle control . I would bet this is easier to do on a motorcycle than a car.
Since "drive-by-wire" is so common now there are companies, and individuals, who have invested the time into figuring out a "work around" for the cruise. Some have swapped parts from a similar vehicle with CC and then managed to get into the vehicles software and fool it. Its all about how much time and effort one wants to invest in this I guess.
I bought a Suzuki GSX1000SGT+ last month and absolutely love the cruise control. First bike I've ever owned with the feature. Of course I kept my '06 DL 1000. I have a wrist saver and throttle lock on it. I'd go to some trouble to get CC on the old SUZI.
I was hoping for an enthusiastic response from a bunch of highly qualified folks with enthusiasm to spare, but I guess they are all out riding. So I contacted MCCruise about becoming a dealer.
I'm kinda busy trying to design a 800 DE DIY flat pack skidpan right now anyway.
I'm kinda busy trying to design a 800 DE DIY flat pack skidpan right now anyway.
You might get a different response once the 800DE has been around for a year or two, and people have had a chance to ride and examine it thoroughly.
At this point, few have ridden or seen one.
MCCruise's overall approach seems sound. It will be an easier problem to solve if one doesn't need to mess with the ECU, and can do as much as possible with digital signaling (vs. a servo that physically moves the throttle grip, for example).
It might not be all that difficult to "decode" Suzuki's throttle-by-wire signaling. To encrypt/obfuscate the signaling in a way that is deliberately user-unfriendly, as has been alluded to in the automotive world, costs money. I suspect Suzuki is not there yet.
If I had an 800DE and an oscilloscope, I'd have already hooked up the O-scope to get a look at the throttle signals. Neither of my 2 bikes has throttle by wire. Been thinking about buying an O-scope anyway. If nothing else, it would be interesting to see the AC waveform that comes off the stator.
The 800DE having CANBUS opens possibilities. Plenty of existing products/software will work with CANBUS.
At this point, few have ridden or seen one.
MCCruise's overall approach seems sound. It will be an easier problem to solve if one doesn't need to mess with the ECU, and can do as much as possible with digital signaling (vs. a servo that physically moves the throttle grip, for example).
It might not be all that difficult to "decode" Suzuki's throttle-by-wire signaling. To encrypt/obfuscate the signaling in a way that is deliberately user-unfriendly, as has been alluded to in the automotive world, costs money. I suspect Suzuki is not there yet.
If I had an 800DE and an oscilloscope, I'd have already hooked up the O-scope to get a look at the throttle signals. Neither of my 2 bikes has throttle by wire. Been thinking about buying an O-scope anyway. If nothing else, it would be interesting to see the AC waveform that comes off the stator.
The 800DE having CANBUS opens possibilities. Plenty of existing products/software will work with CANBUS.
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