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first, a few fore-words:

1) this post is not about stroms, but
2) it IS about canada, and therefore does not fit in the "off topic" category.

there is a raging debate here in the u.s. regarding healthcare in canada. okay, so maybe the raging debate is just between my family and my friends, but it IS raging.

can you help settle the debate?

we all know that healthcare is free in canada, from cradle to grave. here in ths u.s. we call that socialized medicine. everywhere else in the world, they call it taking care of people.

thanks to the washington medical lobby, we have been taught to believe that the quality of medicine under a socialized system is inferior.

we have also recently been told that a LOT of canadians go south of the border to get good quality medical procedures, because of the inferior quality of those same services in canada.

so the question simply is: ... true or false?

1) canadian healthcare is low quality?
2) canadians in need of complex procedures come to the u.s. to get them?

thanks for your input.

i ask because i'm getting old, see ... and the missus and i are seriously considering going some place where we can afford medical care. someplace like canada.
 

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Boy, would you ever miss the weather in California... As far as health care, the public system has always been there for me and my extended family whenever it was needed. The main problem with our system IMHO is wait times. A friend of my is battling cancer and would had to wait a couple of months from diaganosis to treatment here. He had access to funds that allowed him to go to Texas and start getting treatment immediately. He will apply to have some of the coverage paid by our provincial health care program.

Another problem with it being free is that many don't have a family doctor and simply go to the ER for anything that is bothering them. This makes for a crowded ER waiting room. People often wait many hours when they aren't high on the priority list.

I love our health care system, but it does have it's glitches. I have a friend in Philly though who pays a lot of $$ for only partial coverage -- I'm glad I don't have to...

Steve
 

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waiting list

the ones that go to the usa for treatment are the ones who are on a waiting list for a certain procedure and can afford too go south too have it done there. in some cases the government will pay for it . alot of ethnic people go too the us too too find out if they are haveing a boy or girl when pregnant as its against the law here .
 

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My own personal experience with Canadian healthcare is pretty positive. It's not all "free" by the way, but the major costs are covered. My most recent experience was a ruptured Achilles tendon. Did it on a Friday afternoon, got through emerg. dept. in the hospital in less than 3 hours, had surgery the following morning by a highly-recommended orthopaedic surgeon, was kicked out that night. Total cost to me was $30 for a pair of crutches. Surgery, hospital stay, various casts, follow-up visits to another surgeon, etc. were at no direct cost to me. I have no idea what the actual cost was, but probably many $1,000s. My work-based extended health coverage is paying for 80% of the extensive followup physio-therapy; that's not covered by standard health insurance here in Ontario where I live.

ON THE OTHER HAND, at least where I live, access to family physicians is getting pretty bad, due to shortages of doctors. I think it's even worse in smaller communities. I'm lucky; I've been alive for a long time :mrgreen: so I've had the same doc forever (he delivered my babies who are now 28 and 32). Dunno what'll happen when he retires, but it might not be pretty. Luckily my current wife has a much younger doc, so maybe she'll take me on if need be. But lots of people have no family doc, and have to rely on walk-in clinics or hospital emerg. The latter just adds to the problem, of course. And there are many foreign-trained doctors here who can't practice because of the draconian rules enforced on them by various governing bodies.

So, it ain't all roses. But I wouldn't want to live anywhere else.

Sure, some people undoubtedly go elsewhere for non-elective surgery, etc. and there are always those who are unhappy, no matter where you are. I'm personally a bit pissed because my prov. govt. recently stopped covering regular eye exams. Glaucoma runs in my family, so I need an annual test for that. I'm on the hook for that exam now. Luckily I can easily afford it; there are lots who can't. Also for all dental, although my work health plan pays most of that. But I've never received what I'd consider "inferior" medical care. I do remember my folks telling me about how it used to be, when people had to save up money just to pay the doctor to deliver babies. My sister and I were both born via emergency C-section in a remote northern mining town, and my folks were out of pocket for that. Put them close to the poverty line for several years. That's just unthinkable now. To me, universal access to basic medical care should be a right rather than a privilege in this day and age.

Just one Soviet Canuckistanian's point of view. I'm sure you'll hear lots of differing ones.
 

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Here's an extensive Wikipedia entry :

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medicare_(Canada)

This pretty much seems to sum it up:

It has increasingly become a source of controversy in Canadian politics. As a recent report from the Health Council of Canada has noted "Herein lies one of the puzzles of Canadian health care: Canadians increasingly view the health care system as unsustainable and under threat, even as their own experiences with the system are mostly positive."
 

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1) canadian healthcare is low quality?

I would say this is not the case, not that I've had much experience at hospitals, my last visit was 10 years ago for surgery to repair a compound fracture of my thumb. My mother had some heart issues last year and she was very impressed with the treatment, during her week at the hospital. She had numerous heart related tests done, including a angioplasty, without it costing her a cent. The only charges I seem to recall is based on the room you stay in while hospitalized, whether it's a ward (4 people), private or semi-private (2 people), and in most cases your employer covers a percentage usually in the 80%-90% range with you to make up the difference from your pocket. Assuming your employer covers it at all. Without any employer coverage you usually end up in a ward.

Quality is subjective, I definitely wouldn't say it's low, probably more along the line of good medium quality. Again my opinion.

2) canadians in need of complex procedures come to the u.s. to get them?

No way! I'm almost insulted, almost :) I would say most of those trips to the U.S. are due to waiting times in Canada. But our health care system will cover it, if it's urgently required. The common theme is lack of resources to do the work. Not enough MD's! As well I've read, that cancer related treatments, tend to be quicker in the U.S.

But... hey I eat my vitamins and have an apple a day. So I haven't been a burden on our healthcare system.
 

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Health care in Canada

1) canadian healthcare is low quality?
2) canadians in need of complex procedures come to the u.s. to get them?
Health care is at least as good as the U.S.

Yes, sometimes there are waiting lists, but usually, if the case warrants it, people can get ahead of the waiting list. This is for medical reasons, not $$$$

I love our medical system. It works well and we don't lose our houses or life savings if we get ill.

Lots of countries have socialized medicine, and the people in those countries are generally healthy.

Go rent "Sicko". It gives a pretty fair picture of what's happening with health care globally.

I was raised in the U.S. and was fed all the normal horsesh*t about socialism. It took a while to lose the anti-socialist mindset, and I'm glad I did.

I'm in a socialist country now, and the system is pretty good. It's a much more caring system than most others. It works...

:p
 

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sicko

Health care is at least as good as the U.S.

Yes, sometimes there are waiting lists, but usually, if the case warrants it, people can get ahead of the waiting list. This is for medical reasons, not $$$$

I love our medical system. It works well and we don't lose our houses or life savings if we get ill.

Lots of countries have socialized medicine, and the people in those countries are generally healthy.

Go rent "Sicko". It gives a pretty fair picture of what's happening with health care globally.

I was raised in the U.S. and was fed all the normal horsesh*t about socialism. It took a while to lose the anti-socialist mindset, and I'm glad I did.

I'm in a socialist country now, and the system is pretty good. It's a much more caring system than most others. It works...

:p
yes france is really good , the doctor rides right too you house on a v strom
 

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I think one of the most important things to me about our health care system is that everyone is covered, regardless of income. Part of my pride in being Canadian is knowing that access to care doesn't depend on income and that no one is "uninsured." I don't know how my care in Canada would compare to my care in the US if I had insurance there, but it seems likely that the very poor in Canada get better care than the very poor in the US. I think that matters, but maybe it is just the "socialist" in me acting up.
 

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free care

I think one of the most important things to me about our health care system is that everyone is covered, regardless of income. Part of my pride in being Canadian is knowing that access to care doesn't depend on income and that no one is "uninsured." I don't know how my care in Canada would compare to my care in the US if I had insurance there, but it seems likely that the very poor in Canada get better care than the very poor in the US. I think that matters, but maybe it is just the "socialist" in me acting up.
it is great , but many abuse it . some claim too have pain that requires opiates. then sell them for up to $60 dollars a pill on the street .if you do the math someone with a false pain can make more than someone with a good paying job
 

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it is great , but many abuse it . some claim too have pain that requires opiates. then sell them for up to $60 dollars a pill on the street .if you do the math someone with a false pain can make more than someone with a good paying job
Do you really think 'many' abuse it? I really don't think so. You know the media, always making a big deal out of not much.

Most doctors aren't fooled by phonies and are careful how they hand out narcotics. Of course there will be morons who play the system, but I really think they're a very, very small minority. They'll self-exterminate in time after all.

Of course, the government sells alcohol at insane prices here, so there's not much difference between the two anyway.

Canada must be a great place to live. Why else would be put up with the weather here?

:mrgreen:
 

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your right

i only go to a doctor if something is bent or broken , once i went and many were in the line up , i was taken in right away . i think they put your number in the computer and if you dont abuse the system you get treated better
 

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forms

last year i broke my shoulder skiing , so i need a form sighned to go back too work . she says hows your arm . i say its good . she sighn form . $70 bucks for her in less than 2 minites
 

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I have been in parts of the world that make me say to myself..."self, we in canada have fantastic health care and I sure wouldnt want to get sick or injured here".

Our system is of course, not really "free", we pay heavily thru our taxes. But I would prefer that any day to having to cough up several thousand, or even several hundred thousand for medical treatment.

Yes, our system (especially ER's) do get abused, no doubt about that, and like many developed nations are having trouble training/recruiting enough doctors.

We are living longer, but not always healthier, this puts a huge strain on the system. People used to die of any number of age related ailments, but now thru intensive medical treatment/care we are sticking around longer and adding much cost to the system.

Its not perfect, but its pretty darn good IMHO.

Cheers!
 

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lol

well put

cheers
hows the shopping cart repair buisness going , i plan on getting a wallmart cart for retirement , but will up grade too v strom wheel bearings. the givi 52 litre is nothing compared to a wall mart 500 litre top case
 

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I service and install MRI and CT scans in Ontario Canada - so I may have a biased opinion, but I think diagnostically we are ahead of lots of countries. Scanners are upgraded in a timely manner, there are quality controls in place, and a firm understanding and concern over radiation dose. I've seen MRI images that Canadians have gone across the border for (to bypass the wait lists for non-urgent scans), and they wouldn't be considered acceptable here.
The picture attached is my heated vest zippered around two pillows, scanned on a thin slice CT scanner (700 axial images), and reconstructed on a cardiac workstation - it was a quality assurance scan (that's my story....)
 
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