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Discussion Starter #1
I am in the process of removing the front stock sprocket for a change out.

I have bent back the washer but cannot break the nut with force.

Can I heat it. I am concerned with the rubber ring just behind the bent washer in front of the sprocket.

My new sprocket does not have that rubber piece and the schematics do not show a separate rubber piece. Is that just part of the stock sprocket.??

If so I am not concerned with a melt down.
 

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What Kinda Bike Is That?
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I am in the process of removing the front stock sprocket for a change out.

I have bent back the washer but cannot break the nut with force.

Can I heat it. I am concerned with the rubber ring just behind the bent washer in front of the sprocket.

My new sprocket does not have that rubber piece and the schematics do not show a separate rubber piece. Is that just part of the stock sprocket.??

If so I am not concerned with a melt down.
If this is the first time changing the front sprocket, then yes, the "rubber" is just part of the sprocket. It is actually on both sides of the OEM sprocket to act as a dampening device against chain/sprocket noise.

It is okay to heat the countershaft nut. Some use a heat gun, others have used a propane torch. The propane torch is what I have used. When reinstalling the nut, use "blue" thread locker.

Don't try to remove the nut by using the transmission of the bike to "hold" the drive train. Place the transmission in neutral, and lay a piece of wood, or a bar across the top of the swingarm, and let a spoke from the rear wheel fetch up against it. This way, there is no excess strain on the transmission.

Do the reverse to tighten the CS nut after installing the new sprocket. However, you will need to place the "stop" underneath the swingarm for the rear wheel spoke to fetch up against.

There are some photos of this in the "How To" section of the forum.

B.L.
 

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There is a drive shaft seal with its rubber sealing lip just behind the sprocket. Use as little heat as possible on the shaft.

One of the other strom forums had pics of the shaft where the nut galled and tore the threads out. Try this...wire brush the threads clean and use a good penetrating oil on the threads...Kroil or B'laster PB are two good ones (WD-40 is weak). After you get the nut broken loose, if it doesn't want to screw off fairly easily, turn the nut a bit left, then a bit right, more penetrant, left, right, penetrant, etc., until you finally get it off. Use the penetrating oil to wash the rust out and don't let the rust get into the threads and gall them. When it is finally off, clean everything well before putting the nut back on. If the threads are damaged, dress them very carefully with a small fine 3-corner file. If the nut threads are damaged, buy a new nut.
 

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While it may not help in short term, I recommend getting an electric impact driver for this any many other jobs (great for driving long screws into wood where many electric drills run out of steam). I got this on sale for about $60 and it took off the front sprocket in a few seconds: Mastercraft 3KO Corded Impact Wrench | Canadian Tire

The kit shown above unfortunately includes SAE sockets. I suspect you can find a similar item on sale at many places near you.
 

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FORUM GODFATHER.....R.I.P. PAT
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A 1-1/4" socket will work fine on the nut.
 

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Plus 1 for the impact wrench, it puts much less strain on everything that is resisting the counter sprocket turning. However, if it is as PT rider explained, you must allow the impact wrench to break the nut free but not to spin it off. You must therefore determine that it is free to turn before allowing the impact wrench to spin it off or you will destroy the thread on the counter shaft.:jawdrop::furious::headbang:
The real concern with heat is the seal on the counter shaft. If you can't get the nut to break loose any other way, heat is the way, and you may/will have to replace the seal.
 

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I used a small hair drier on mine (30 minutes). Made all the difference in the world. If that doesn't work I'd go for an impact wrench.
 

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FORUM GODFATHER.....R.I.P. PAT
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Before I got an impact wrench, I used a torch on the nut. I've had the nut off a few times that way and the original seal is fine.
 

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I used the wooden block on the swingarm to keep the wheel from turning, transmission in neutral, and a 4 foot bar on my 1/2" drive wrench. Came off with one arm pulling on the pipe. Easy with leverage. But an impact gun is the way to go if you don't have a pipe extension for your wrench.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
Thanks for the tips. While I was waiting for the replies I pulled the rear wheel to change tires. Will have to get the wheel back on to finish the front sprocket.
I have access to heat, impact wrenches, etc. I will follow all the advice.

Much appreciated.
 

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What Kinda Bike Is That?
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Before I got an impact wrench, I used a torch on the nut. I've had the nut off a few times that way and the original seal is fine.
+1

Seal is okay. Apply the heat to the nut and not to the shaft.
 

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you must allow the impact wrench to break the nut free but not to spin it off. You must therefore determine that it is free to turn before allowing the impact wrench to spin it off or you will destroy the thread on the counter shaft.
Could you please explain that? I'm having trouble picturing what the danger is there, assuming you're turning the nut the correct direction. Maybe I'm dense. (You must determine that what is free to turn?)

For what it's worth, I did this with a breaker bar and a block of wood to stop the wheel. I didn't need heat or an impact wrench, and it wasn't terribly difficult. YMMV.
 

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good info.
 

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Could you please explain that? I'm having trouble picturing what the danger is there, assuming you're turning the nut the correct direction. Maybe I'm dense. (You must determine that what is free to turn?)

For what it's worth, I did this with a breaker bar and a block of wood to stop the wheel. I didn't need heat or an impact wrench, and it wasn't terribly difficult. YMMV.
Sorry, I could have been a little more precise. If the nut has galled (not the correct terminology) siezed to the shaft (become one with it metallurgically) then it may want to pull all the threads off with it as the impact wrench easily spins it off. Problem is you won't feel the resistance generated by the nut trying to strip the thread, because the impact gun is all powerful. You should just let it break the nut free (requires very judicial use of the impact gun). Then you should try to remove the nut with a standard 3/8 drive. No chance you will strip the thread by accident. If you feel the nut resisting, then you must go through the previously mentioned steps to try to save the shaft thread. Personally I apply penetrating fluid to the nut every time I have the cover off to adjust clutch or clean CS and then seal it up with some dry chain lube spray. I am positive it can't do any harm but can't say for sure that it will prevent siezing. Take the nut off when it's new and apply anti gall (example; product called TC30) if you want to be sure. I can't see why blue locktite would not work as it has anti gall anti siezing properties. Suzuki use an Orange locktite in there which should acomplish the same thing. I think that time is the enemy here. If you leave it too long you will have trouble.
 

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FORUM GODFATHER.....R.I.P. PAT
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Eww.

I guess it's not clear to me how any use of an impact wrench could be sufficiently "judicious" as to prevent that, given that it was apparently seized. I don't see how you can break it free without doing damage.

Perhaps the advantage of the breaker bar method is that you'll know if it's not going to yield, and can stop before you damage it. Then perhaps switching to heat might help.

Naturally, I'm also now wondering how long it takes to get that bad. I changed them out the first time in August 2009 (20k miles). Now at 33k miles and nearing 2 years on that set, and I definitely ride in the rain ... :yikes:

Maybe I'll let the shop do them next time and thereby externalize the risk. :fineprint:

I note in the story that you posted that it took two guys standing on a breaker bar to do it -- I assure you that I'd stop long before I got to that point of applying that much force, and would take it to a pro.
 

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Very good thread as I intend going 16t on the front soon,well next 20k or so,maybe a job for the dealer mechanic re liability etc :confused:
 

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Eww.

I guess it's not clear to me how any use of an impact wrench could be sufficiently "judicious" as to prevent that, given that it was apparently seized. I don't see how you can break it free without doing damage.



Naturally, I'm also now wondering how long it takes to get that bad. I changed them out the first time in August 2009 (20k miles). Now at 33k miles and nearing 2 years on that set, and I definitely ride in the rain ... :yikes:



If you have used an impact wrench for a while it is like all tools, you get the nack of using them in skillful inventive ways. Some mechanics will just watch the socket as the driver bangs away at it, (the trigger of the gun is not held down, it is just squeezed and quickly released.) and can see when the nut breaks loose (makes a very slight turn). (if the nut is not damaged or loctited it will probably just spin right off at this point) Others can feel it in the gun and some even hold their fingers over the socket. In any case that is the point to stop and check the nut to see if you can turn it by ratchet. If it requires unusual force (and the force becomes progressively greater) then the assumption is that loctite or thread damage are present. Heating with a heat gun should release the loctite, so any nut that wont spin off then probably has thread damage.
Since the cause of the problem is unknown (could be galling could be salt could be cross threading) the time factor is unknown.
 

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Discussion Starter #20
Job Finished

The new Heinie K60 Scout tire is on.

I used the 2x4 to hold the wheel and my Impact wrench to loosen the nut. I did not use any heat. I made sure the threads were clean and lubed for removal. It spun easily compared to when I was using the wrench.

Used the ratchet for the remainder.

New sprockets and chain and rear tire. Sweet!!!

Thanks for the tips gang.
 
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