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Discussion Starter #1
Hi All,

I searched all over but I'm coming up short on details. I settled down this morning to install the GIVI crash bars on my 2017 DL650. The bars bolt to the wide 'V' shaped frame piece that sits just under the large sloping frame pieces. I stopped out of fear of screwing something up, and came looking for info. Nothing I could find, so I'm coming, hat and wrench in hand, to the group.

The bolts are 6 mm allen/ hex bolts. I realized that a conventional allen key and extension bar is not the correct way to go at this, so I'm going to get hex sockets for my torque wrench.

The factory bolts come out and get replaced with the GIVI bolts. Fine.

So, any guidance about the removal and reinstall of these bolts? How best to remove them... heat first to break the thread locker that is clearly there?

Should I do one at at time or the front RE +RE then the rear?

Do these bolts hold the engine up? (gulp)

Do I have to support the engine from below?

Any idea what the correct torque values are for these bolts? Can't find this anywhere.

I see this as a relatively simple installation, but there are not details at all in the instructions, and I'd really rather not screw up a new bike.

I'll add the Ravetech skid plate after and I will use a dab of thread locker.

Thanks in advance for the help.
 

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Hi All,

I searched all over but I'm coming up short on details. I settled down this morning to install the GIVI crash bars on my 2017 DL650. The bars bolt to the wide 'V' shaped frame piece that sits just under the large sloping frame pieces. I stopped out of fear of screwing something up, and came looking for info. Nothing I could find, so I'm coming, hat and wrench in hand, to the group.

The bolts are 6 mm allen/ hex bolts. I realized that a conventional allen key and extension bar is not the correct way to go at this, so I'm going to get hex sockets for my torque wrench.
Great idea.

The factory bolts come out and get replaced with the GIVI bolts. Fine.
Yes. Longer cap screws (bolts) to ensure standard depth into the thread.

So, any guidance about the removal and reinstall of these bolts? How best to remove them... heat first to break the thread locker that is clearly there?
Just undo them with socket and ratchet. Or Hex key.

Should I do one at at time or the front RE +RE then the rear?
Do ONE side at a time - see below.

Do these bolts hold the engine up? (gulp)
YES. Do one side at a time. It is unnecessary, but if in doubt support the engine if you wish.

Do I have to support the engine from below?
If you want to. I didn't.

Any idea what the correct torque values are for these bolts? Can't find this anywhere.

I see this as a relatively simple installation, but there are not details at all in the instructions, and I'd really rather not screw up a new bike.

I'll add the Ravetech skid plate after and I will use a dab of thread locker.

Thanks in advance for the help.
The DL650 manual quotes 40 lbf-ft (55Nm) for engine mounting bolts.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
@Brockie

Thanks for the reply. I think that getting the hex head socket will be an important step; right tool for the job, as they say. I don't know if these bolts are the same as engine mounting bolts, but that is probably a good reference setting for these frame attachments.
 
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They are the engine mounting bolts. They attach the V-shaped bracket (which holds much of the engine weight) to the beam frame. A little blue Loctite would be good. Another trooper here recently talked of a vibration which ended up being these bolts coming loose after he had fitted crash bars.
Take your time. One side at a time.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Thanks again. That makes sense, that the V pieces support / attach the engine to the beam frame- I appreciate that info. I'm not anxious to have the engine get any ideas about making a break for freedom.

I will certainly do this work slowly and carefully, with a calm mind, clear schedule and no beer in hand. I have blue loctite and will definitely use it. Might also enlist the help of a more knowledgable friend.

Or, would you suggest getting an actual competent mechanic to do this work? If so, I'm willing to go that route instead of making it a home install.

Thanks again.
 

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Take your time and you will do fine. If you want to weaken the bond of the factory thread locker use a bit of heat on the bolt. A soldering iron or gun works well. Put the tip in the hex recess and heat her up. Consider how hot the bolt gets from engine heat and get it hotter than that. Mount one side but don't fully tighten down. Then mount the other and join together. The bit of play will help with alignment of the front piece if the bends are not perfect. Tourque every thing up. Put a witness mark at 12 oclock on the bolts heads. For the next while before you ride have a look see at the marks. No movement, all good. If the ice and sand were off the passes I would ride down and assist. Need to make it down to the coast and see some grass and flowers ha ha
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Thank @BC Rider

Very much appreciate the post. I will add your guidance to the process. Marks to check alignment was something I was also planning on.

Beautiful weather here, finally! Went out yesterday and I'm planning on doing all my work commuting on the bikes as often as I can. I'll also be in the OK this summer; I have friends with a place in Summerland and a friend's band is doing a bit of tour in the south OK, so I'll have that on the agenda.

So great having a world-wide, and local, group of friends to help!
 

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Still clouds of salty dust here on the roads. Bike is still stashed in the garage with 8 inches of snow in front. You will enjoy the summer heat up here. Hoping for no forest fires this year.
 

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Discussion Starter #9 (Edited)
Well, this must not be my day for amateur mechanics. Even being careful, I've striped one of the allen bolts on the V support. Shit. It is not totally ruined, but it is not working with an allen head socket. I used heat, and really thought I had it all the way in. But apparently not.

Some sort of stripped bolt remover must be available. Problem is, the bolt is recessed into the frame. At least the bars come with replacement bolts. The factory bolts do seem soft.

Impact driver did not help (the kind you hit with a hammer) but I was not too brutal. Drill and easy out is next step, I think.

Any advice before I do more damage?
 

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Well hell eh. Before doing anything heat soak it again, enough to break the thread locker. Hard spot to dremel a slot to use a large flat head in the impact. Either weld allan key into it or JB weld the allen socket into it. Have the epoxy take up the missing metal. Let it cure very well. Be very careful if you drill and extract. Look at your new bolts to judge the drill size. Leave enough meat for the extractor to bite into. Myself I hate using extractors as they seem to snap so easily now a days.
 

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Am I understanding correctly that you stripped the thread while attempting to remove the OEM bolt and now cannot get it out? Or that the bolt broke, leaving part of the thread still embedded in the frame?
That sucks.

The frame is alloy and no place for anything so brutal as an impact driver. After heating the area also try soaking it with CRC.
Can you be more specific with what went wrong, and where you are now?
 

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Discussion Starter #12
Thanks guys,

I started on the right front side. I used a butane torch, set very low, with a flame about 1"/ 2.5 cm long, into the allen key recess of the two bolts of the forward mounting point on the wide V element. I put an allen key socket on my torque wrench, and set the torque setting to about 60 ft/ lbs. The upmost bolt, closest to the front of the bike, came lose, quite smoothly, without the 'shock', abrupt 'breaking' sound that sometimes occurs. Once that was movable, i tried the second, rear bolt on the front attachment point. It did not turn. Instead, the allen key began to strip the thread inside points of the bolt. In the pic attached, I'm pointing to the problem bolt.

I was fairly gentle with the impact driver, but I agree it is not the correct tool for this job.

So, the OEM bolt is still in place, and secure. It did not break.
The allen 'socket' is mostly rounded, but not completely. The bars come with replacement bolts that seem less soft, so I don't need to reuse the ruined bolt.

I will try heat again, with liquid wrench, and I'm happy to sacrifice an allen socket to get this thing out.

It seems that I did not get the allen socket fully inserted into the bolt. It may also be that this bolt has an extra helping of thread locker, but I'm not looking to blame the equipment.

It just pisses me off because I feel I did everything correctly; I was patient, sober, equipped with the correct tools and attentive. Oh well. Screw-ups happen. This is not terminal, but annoying all the same.

My thanks for the continued assistance.
 

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Oh, that was what went wrong - you were sober.

:surprise:

I think what I'd do is (as previously suggested) weld an allen key into the bolt head. Once welded, immediately attempt to extract, b/c the act of welding will have melted the thread lock.

I have never successfully extracted anything with an "extractor" - probably tried 6 or 8 times. I should just throw the damn things into the trash.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
@grannygearGA

Thanks, and welcome! I have to say, a welder is not something I have lying around. Plus, I've never used a welder. It would be like renting a Bobcat and trying to do delicate work, manoeuvring around in a tight space, surround by expensive fragile things. Not really the best approach to a new tool.

But some sort of welding glue, like JB weld is a good option. Fudgebucket.
 

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t again, with liquid wrench, and I'm happy to sacrifice an allen socket to get this thing out.

It seems that I did not get the allen socket fully inserted into the bolt. It may also be that this bolt has an extra helping of thread locker, but I'm not looking to blame the equipment.

It just pisses me off because I feel I did everything correctly; I was patient, sober, equipped with the correct tools and attentive. Oh well. Screw-ups happen. This is not terminal, but annoying all the same.

My thanks for the continued assistance.
I am doing a full teardown of my '80 KZ750 and have hogged out or snapped off several Phillips and Allen head bolts in the process. Something to do with 39 year-old soft aluminum fasteners that have rarely or never been removed from their rusty steel inserts.
I've found the best tool for removing damaged fasteners is an extractor kit by Alden Corp. called Grab-It Pro. They are special bits that you use to burnish the damaged head or remaining shaft of a broken bolt, then use the other end to unscrew the fastener. A variable speed drill is necessary to s-l-o-w-l-y back out the bolt. They hold up well after repeated use.
I also have Givi crash bars on my Wee and I went out to check if the Grab-it bit would fit the OEM Allen bolts:Just barely.
But you could ream out the heads slightly and the Grab-it bit will reach the bottom of the recess more easily. I got mine online. You won't regret it.
Grabit-Pro | Alden
 

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O.K.
Firstly, never use a torque wrench to remove a bolt. Their purpose is only to install.
Use a normal ratchet with your hex socket. That is all that should be required. I never imagined that you would use a torque wrench or impact wrench.

I also see the damaged bolt hex head, still in place.

I think that I now understand your problem. Simple. No worries.
What you are saying, and correct me if I am wrong, is that you did not insert the hex socket fully into the bolt and have damaged the head of the bolt.

The answer is to make the hex socket engage into the bolt fully. Use a fine triangular file like this, https://www.ebay.com/itm/Nicholson-...m=272629967832&_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851 but one that has a working surface that goes right to, or near, the tip.

Use the file to "clean up" the damaged hex socket. Work carefully but mostly concentrate on cleaning up the six corners to be more like they should be. Take off the least amount of material possible.

When you think that the bolt head looks more like it used to, remove your socket from any wrench etc and using a hammer attempt to lightly and squarely tap the hex socket into the bolt hole. It MUST go all the way in. It may be easier to put an extension bar onto the socket to help ensure that you only tap it squarely to its hole. Be careful to ensure that it doesgo all the way in. If you cannot get it in, file some more high points away.

When you are sure that the hex socket is all the way into the bolt head attach a ratchet to the socket and being careful to apply force correctly and square to the handle undo the bolt by turning it anti-clockwise. Let us know how you get on.
 

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Discussion Starter #17
SUCCESS!

Guys, thanks again for all the excellent help, including thinking about the problem. I took the bike (and all the bars and bits) to a friend's place. He is much more experienced than I am and has a better collection of tools. Using a heat gun on low, to warm the V brace, drilling out the stripped bolt, we were able to get the bolt out with an easy-out. Very slowly, as advised.

All seven other bolts came loose without drama, so I assume that one bolt had extra loctite, or was just wedged in with some unnatural force.

There was no damage to the V brace threads and all the new bolts that came with the bars went in without difficulty. The Givi bars fit very nicely and I feel better now that I have some extra tip over protection. Overall, it took us about 1.5 hours to do it all.

Ravetech skid pan next; have to remove the side stand bolt for that so perhaps there is still danger on the road (garage floor) ahead.

Cheers. And another sunny warm day!
 
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Good to hear you got it out and all is good. Granny is correct, never work sober ha ha. You will find some fasteners are well dipped in treadlocker. The stand bolts are heavey duty with a fine thread. IIRC used 6 point socket and a long breaker bar on mine. Make sure the bike is well supported. You won't want to be laying on the ground with the bike toppled on top of you and your beer just out of reach.
 

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Glad that it turned out well. While learning bike maintenance take your time to make sure that things are done right.
BTW seriously consider a main stand. It makes mods and maintenance so much easier to carry out. :wink2:
 

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A trick I learned years ago when you feel a fastener is not going to come loose and it starts to feel like it will be stripped is to stop and grab some valve lapping compound. Resembles a grey grainy thin paste. Put some on the tool tip and try again. It really does allow more torque to be applied to the head. Has saved me many headaches in the past.
 
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