[Max in Montreal]

I think I feel safer in my head staying with motorcycle tires... But I was wondering, if there is no difference between a car tire and a motorcycle tire, why do people not put them on the front wheel?

 

[notacop]

If you are riding a sidecar rig, that is a really spiffy idea. I ran Avon SMII and Metzler Block K which both had a square profile. Never thought of car tires back then. Woulda gotten a lot mire than 5K miles out of car tire vs the MC tires....and cheaper too.

 

[PerazziMx14]

People do put them on both f/r. Google or youtube "Double Darkside"

I will say this is typically done on big cruisers that have wide front wheels. Since most motorcycle front tires front tires last a lot longer than the rear running a CT on the front doesn't have the financial payback like the rear if that why you Darksiding.

Another biggie is available sizes. If I could get a car tire in 110/90-17 I certainly give it a whirl.

Also going a few sizes wider on the rear has nowhere near the effect as even going 1 size wider on the front.

 

[madscrapper85]

Don't think anyone at any point had said there is no difference between them. But the differences that are there do not make them unsafe which is the biggest argument against doing it. Double Darkside is a thing. A little Google search would've answered your questions without coming off as you did.

 

[PerazziMx14]

This is the problem with text. We all read it different ways. I think the OP asked a legit question and was not condescending or ill-mannered in his presentation. Just aske a question.

I will agree that no one has said there is "no difference". From limited personal expierence I will say it not as much difference as you'd think.

As a bit of thread drift, How the Super T treating you. Likes? dislikes?

 

[Motorpsychology]

I wonder about handling. I don't have any more than a layman's knowledge of tire engineering, but my gut feeling tells me that in an automotive tire, the rubber compound is inherently harder, and/ or formulated to provide optimal coefficient of friction at a weight-per-area and operating temperature that would likely not be reached installed on an MC.
Also, an automotive tire's contact patch would be severely compromised in a turn at speed; its profile is not designed to provide adequate traction at even a moderate lean angle. IMHO. they are made to be used with another tire across from each other on the same axle.
Cost is an economy of scale proposition. You can buy a 255/70R22.5 tractor-trailer tire new, not retread, for around $250USD, about what a premium MC tire costs. But, in the US, there are nearly 2 million semi tractors with 6-10+ tires each and 5.6 million trailers with 4-32+ tires each, and they all need replacing sooner or later.

 

[madscrapper85]

This is the problem with text. We all read it different ways. I think the OP asked a legit question and was not condescending or ill-mannered in his presentation. Just aske a question.

I will agree that no one has said there is "no difference". From limited personal expierence I will say it not as much difference as you'd think.

As a bit of thread drift, How the Super T treating you. Likes? dislikes?

The Super T is super the Strom hasn't come out of the garage other than people test riding it since it came home. Love love love the power, and the suspension on the ES is nice to just select what I want and go. I am having a bit of a wrist pain issue after riding for 4-5hrs not quite sure what I'm going to do with that. But as of now I don't think I could go back to any Strom now. If anything happens it'll be adding a T7 to the stable.


Hopefully I did read it wrong and added the sarcasm myself. Between the heading and the wording just gave me that same old feeling of anti Darkside discourse that usually happens.

 

[madscrapper85]

I wonder about handling. I don't have any more than a layman's knowledge of tire engineering, but my gut feeling tells me that in an automotive tire, the rubber compound is inherently harder, and/ or formulated to provide optimal coefficient of friction at a weight-per-area and operating temperature that would likely not be reached installed on an MC.
Also, an automotive tire's contact patch would be severely compromised in a turn at speed; its profile is not designed to provide adequate traction at even a moderate lean angle. IMHO. they are made to be used with another tire across from each other on the same axle.
Cost is an economy of scale proposition. You can buy a 255/70R22.5 tractor-trailer tire new, not retread, for around $250USD, about what a premium MC tire costs. But, in the US, there are nearly 2 million semi tractors with 6-10+ tires each and 5.6 million trailers with 4-32+ tires each, and they all need replacing sooner or later.

Your lean angle statement had been disproven multiple times. The contact patch of a CT is quite large at any angle. Your not taking into consideration that the sidewall rolls and the tread wraps around when the weight of the bike is applied at a lean angle. Many many videos showing how this happens, also can look at rock crawlers how the tire can wrap up and around to grab the sides of objects very similar just exacerbated in that specific example. The weight issue could be an issue. Especially as the tread hardens with age I know that the Strom is barely heavy enough to adequately use the amount of grip a CT has. As my blizzak got harder on the third season of using it I noticed more lock ups from the tire and I believe if the bike was heavier with a lower cg I could've ran that tire for another two seasons. If your like me and doing mostly commuting and putting 20k+ miles a year on a bike a CT is definitely a viable option, also a option for long distance traveling without worrying about changing tires like an Alaska run. Guys are getting 30k+ miles add up how many of those $250 tires it takes to get there and you can see why a $70 CT is enticing.

 

[Ratchet]

Another biggie is available sizes. If I could get a car tire in 110/90-17 I certainly give it a whirl.

How about an antique car tire size? Something like what was used on a Model A (or T) Ford? You might not like the tread pattern and I suspect the tire compound was not optimized for a modern motorcycle. Maybe even a NOS tire? (just kidding Perazzi...)

I wonder about handling. I don't have any more than a layman's knowledge of tire engineering, but my gut feeling tells me that in an automotive tire, the rubber compound is inherently harder, and/ or formulated to provide optimal coefficient of friction at a weight-per-area and operating temperature that would likely not be reached installed on an MC.
Also, an automotive tire's contact patch would be severely compromised in a turn at speed; its profile is not designed to provide adequate traction at even a moderate lean angle.

I'm not going to debate the pro's and con's of darksiding handling, however, it is my understanding that darksiders reduce the pressure significantly (well below what is recommended for MC tires) and on the heavier touring bikes, this probably allows some flexibility in the sidewalls and a larger contact patch than running the car tire at MC air pressures.

Ever wonder why there are not too many MC racers using car tires? Must be a reason. Not having to make a pit stop when all the other guys are stopping for new tires should be an advantage.

 

[madscrapper85]

How about an antique car tire size? Something like what was used on a Model A (or T) Ford? You might not like the tread pattern and I suspect the tire compound was not optimized for a modern motorcycle. Maybe even a NOS tire? (just kidding Perazzi...)


I'm not going to debate the pro's and con's of darksiding handling, however, it is my understanding that darksiders reduce the pressure significantly (well below what is recommended for MC tires) and on the heavier touring bikes, this probably allows some flexibility in the sidewalls and a larger contact patch than running the car tire at MC air pressures.

Ever wonder why there are not too many MC racers using car tires? Must be a reason. Not having to make a pit stop when all the other guys are stopping for new tires should be an advantage.

I ran my blizzak at 32-36psi. Both of my cars are running 35psi. Haven't seen too many Darksiders running "well below" recommended pressures regularly.

From my experience I would say that the force required for transitions would make it different while racing. I would like to try a slick race tire on a bike and see how it does only ever run DOT rated tires

 

[PerazziMx14]

How about an antique car tire size? Something like what was used on a Model A (or T) Ford? You might not like the tread pattern and I suspect the tire compound was not optimized for a modern motorcycle. Maybe even a NOS tire? (just kidding Perazzi...)


I'm not going to debate the pro's and con's of darksiding handling, however, it is my understanding that darksiders reduce the pressure significantly (well below what is recommended for MC tires) and on the heavier touring bikes, this probably allows some flexibility in the sidewalls and a larger contact patch than running the car tire at MC air pressures.

Ever wonder why there are not too many MC racers using car tires? Must be a reason. Not having to make a pit stop when all the other guys are stopping for new tires should be an advantage.

Honestly I'd have no problem trying Model T tires/tire technology (if they fit) as long as I was traveling at Model T speeds.

I love when the track argument comes into play. I cannot ever remember seeing a Moto GP team using Shinko 705, TKC80's, Annakee's on the track. I mean they are all motorcycle tires so why not?

 

[PerazziMx14]

The Super T is super the Strom hasn't come out of the garage other than people test riding it since it came home. Love love love the power, and the suspension on the ES is nice to just select what I want and go. I am having a bit of a wrist pain issue after riding for 4-5hrs not quite sure what I'm going to do with that. But as of now I don't think I could go back to any Strom now. If anything happens it'll be adding a T7 to the stable.


Hopefully I did read it wrong and added the sarcasm myself. Between the heading and the wording just gave me that same old feeling of anti Darkside discourse that usually happens.

Have you compared the handlebar angle to the DL. Maybe a new set or swapping the bars is in order to mitigate the wrist pain?

Glad to hear you are liking the new whip.

 

[Bugzy]

I have never tried a car tire on a motorcycle, so of course I cannot comment on what it is like, but I can say this.. without any doubts whatsoever, when my motorcycle tire squares off, and I swap it to a new tire, there is a huge difference in cornering and control. The bike falls into corners with zero effort, and while it also works with squared off tires, you can really feel the difference with a new rounded tire.

Having said that, if I had a Goldwing or something heavy, that ate up motorcycle tires, I would for sure put a CT on rear, but likely not on front.

 

[PerazziMx14]

I have never tried a car tire on a motorcycle, so of course I cannot comment on what it is like, but I can say this.. without any doubts whatsoever, when my motorcycle tire squares off, and I swap it to a new tire, there is a huge difference in cornering and control. The bike falls into corners with zero effort, and while it also works with squared off tires, you can really feel the difference with a new rounded tire.

Having said that, if I had a Goldwing or something heavy, that ate up motorcycle tires, I would for sure put a CT on rear, but likely not on front.

Again do not assume the outside edge of the of the car tire thread is rigid. It not like rolling a rigid cube where there is a definitive edge every 90 degrees. As stated many time the CT thread flexs as the bike leans over and there is for me no feeling of "transition" from straight to turning or side to side through sweeping "S" curves. Is as fluid feeling as a rounded MC tire.

 

[OydnaR]

 

[V-Strom Ry 2]

Ever wonder why there are not too many MC racers using car tires? Must be a reason. Not having to make a pit stop when all the other guys are stopping for new tires should be an advantage.

Probably because running a car tire on a motorcycle does adversely affect handling. Maybe not to a dangerous level, and maybe not too significantly for the typical use (touring and cruising bikes), but even the guys who run them will admit that they get some funky feelings from the rear wheel at times.

 

[Jimding]

Freedom

For those who want to run a car tire, fine and good. I figure riding a motorcycle is dangerous enough without experimenting. I don't ride enough that tire costs are significant, so I'm happy to spend extra to get purpose-built tires. I don't wear off all the nibs to the very edge of the tire, but I get pretty close.

If someone on the Dark Side has a GoPro and can focus it on the contact patch during some spirited riding, would certainly answer some questions about CT's on bikes. Most especially the side of the tire in the opposite direction of the lean. Details of bike weight and tire pressure would also be helpful.

 

[PerazziMx14]

For those who want to run a car tire, fine and good. I figure riding a motorcycle is dangerous enough without experimenting. I don't ride enough that tire costs are significant, so I'm happy to spend extra to get purpose-built tires. I don't wear off all the nibs to the very edge of the tire, but I get pretty close.

If someone on the Dark Side has a GoPro and can focus it on the contact patch during some spirited riding, would certainly answer some questions about CT's on bikes. Most especially the side of the tire in the opposite direction of the lean. Details of bike weight and tire pressure would also be helpful.

Ask and ye shall receive...……

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct...=rNlhHBr9-1I&usg=AOvVaw1Pu22MsAI2_67ndh_2rHio

Here's a pretty good vid of a CT flexing:

 

[Jimding]

Pretty cool

Looks like a Goldwing, maybe? Don't much like the looks of that contact patch shrinking as you lean it over, although the downhill sidewall flex is helping. Probably be a bit concerned about any foreign object damage, especially leaned over, as the sidewalls tend to be more vulnerable.

Anyway, very illuminating. For those that go that way, I wish you the best, and good luck.

 

[Rollin']

I haven't used a car tire on my DL but I did use car tires on the rear of my Victory Vision for four years and my CTX1300 for two years.
Starting using a car tire in 2011 and in 2015 I also starting using a rear tire on the front of the Vision (Shinko 700 Series) and ran that same setup on the CTX.

The car tires were used on 19 of my Iron Butt rides that took me to Mount Evans, Pikes Peak, Death Valley, Independence Pass, The Coronado Trail, Dalton Highway to Deadhorse, Dempster Highway to Inuvik and many other places including the Cabot Trail in Nova Scotia. A lot of different road conditions and weather and had no issues.

I started using a car tire on the Vision because there weren't many tire options and I used a rear motorcycle tire on the front for the same reason. I was using run flat snow tires, they had great wet weather traction and also worked well on gravel and mud.

Would you use a racing slick?

CTX