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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
So, this is kind of a long post, but as I'm considering dumping my Vee at present, it's kind of important and I'm hoping for some helpful feed back from the community on the issue.

I've read through a number of posts, and there seems to be "some" answer for the issues I'm experiencing. A few of which I've applied: TB sync and PCIII. That made things better, but I'm still pretty disappointed in my experience with my DL1000 Vee so far.

After doing the TBS and adding the PCIII, I went on an 800 mile foray into the Oregon high desert and now, seriously, the Strom is about an inch away from the chopping block at this point.

The "touring" type performance was abysmal on the trip. Mileage was also poor, in the low 40's, and that was with using the over drive a lot. Actually the OD sucked, the engine didn't like it at all.

I did my best to get used to this new machine, but there seemed to be no way to drive it and have it also be SMOOTH.

As many post here, the throttle is outrageously twitchy. It feels like turning the engine on and off when trying to use the engine to brake.

Went over a pass with small twisties and it was the most miserable experience on a motorbike I've ever had. I tried the entire range of RPM and every gear, at no range/gear did the lurching between accel and decel go away. And it became scary when the roads got narrow and wet.

Also, tried a bit of off road, and that too was a total fail. No way would it chug down the gavel roads at low-ish rpm in 1st/2nd gear. But also trying high rpm with the twitchy lurching throttle issue made it impossible to smoothly vary my speed and avoid brakes on the loose gravel.

And the engine at low rpm, for instance when using the Over Drive, feels like there are angry gods inside wanting to break out! Would have driven me nuts if it weren't that I wear ear plugs.

Slow traffic. For get it. Requires so much clutch feathering that my fingers start getting sore after just a few minutes.

And add to that some CRAZY rattling and banging every time I accelerate from a stop going through the 3000-4000 range, it's like the whole thing is going to fall apart.

Oh, and did I mention the random back firing?

I've read about the chudder issue, and I probably have to deal with that. But after doing the tests, up hill, and a light pull to see if makes a difference, it only makes a very minor difference. I really have a very hard time association all this with just a problematic clutch too.

Basically, what I would very much appreciate is some feedback. Is it at all possible to dial these bikes in so that they can be nice touring bikes with smooth response AND a usable low to mid RPM range?

I've read a lot of comments that say "you can't lug these bikes" and "you should stay above 4K rpm", but one makes lugging is another mans meat. And always running above 4K coupled with a twitchy throttle, sounds like advice from/for sport riders and not really helpful to us loping touring guys who want a bike usable in a full range. I've ridden plenty of twins and the only time I had to keep above a certain RPM was for the sake of having enough power. On the flats or down hill, totally a non-issue. But it seems to be an issue with the Vee, which is sad.

I've also seen comments that add up to "you have to get used to it", and there's a bit of merit in that, but I don't feel that I should really have to fully change my riding habits for the machines sake. You know?

I'm also a bit annoyed that I seemingly am being required to jump through so many hoops to get a bike "right" that is only 10 years old.

But lets say I did all the recommendations. I'm only a few bits away from that point anyway. Maybe there's a bit of adjustment to be done to the throttle or TPS and say I do go a head with the chudder fix.

My concern is that even then it still won't be the bike where I want it to be :(

And to qualify that, I've owned a number of bikes over the years. I currently own a Burgman 400 scooter, with which I'm very pleased. It's great around town and easily the smoothest bike I've ever had, not the best handling, but it's a scooter after all. Also amongst my many bikes I've owned, the two most notable and recent, I've had a BMW R75/7 airhead twin and a Honda 650GT Hawk cafe racer. Both really nice rides, the operation of which I've never had a complaint about, nor did I ever have to "get used to" or "ride different" to accommodate.

So two twins that I liked every much and one single that I also like. Some newer, some older. With computer and without. None had any issues, or twitchy throttles, or clutch or engine weirdness, no need to feather clutches, or adopt any special riding style, no after market parts or fixes, and the biggest thing of all: each ABSOLUTELY SMOOTH and easy to operate at all RPM ranges and all conditions.

Anyway, finally to my questions:

Can the DL1000, when dialed in, be as smooth and easy to work as the above mentioned bikes?

Or are my expectations for this machine just too high? (or too different from the intended riders?)

Are these bikes just primarily designed/intended for the sport enthusiast riders that are almost always "on it", never even think about low RPM anything, or slow anything, and this bike just isn't a good fit for an all ranges touring fellow like myself?

Is it is just something that needs a bit attention and then everything will magically "click"?

I would really appreciate some feed back on this. I had high hopes. I'm definitely willing to put a bit more $$ and elbow grease into the bike.

But I'm not willing to change my riding style completely. If I want to chug, I should be able to chug, which isn't the same as lug (too low rpm for the immediate power demand).

It's a 1000cc bike! It should pull smooth just above idle in 1st with no lurching, surging, or any other nonsense.

Is this just not the bike I hoped it was?

Thanks!
 

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Some good tips here: DL1000 - Standard answer - low speed issues DL1000

The throttle adjustment I like is to adjust the open cable with the smallest amount of slack that I can get. Less than 1 mm is good. Then adjust the close cable so the slack is just lightly removed from it. If the close cable is too tight it'll hold the throttle open.
 

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When I added the power commander to mine it helped a lot but there were still issues.
One was the chain was too tight from the PO.
Also I found that I needed to use a different map than what came with my power commander.
After switching to chefs (I think that was his name) I found that to be even better and modified that by bumping the lower rpm range fuel percent... This really helped with "twitchy" throttle.
Dialed back a bit the ranges that chef had increased to improve fuel a bit.
Now I have a very enjoyable bike that can be lugged when necessary...
My next change will be a 1 tooth smaller than stock front sprocket...

I was just like you and did not enjoy the bike except under hard acceleration until I started playing with the mappings..

Now it's the best bike I have had.


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Try 16/43 gearing. Resolves many of the issues you don't like. Did for me anyhow. I get mid-high 40's on the open road , never better. But I rarely get worse than high 30's when I'm wringing it out either , so to me , it's a fair trade. 16/43 made it a better machine off pavement as well. Not a lot of $$ make the switch , but does throw the speedo off , so I fixed that with a 12oclock labs healer. Just a thought.
 

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Life is too short to be that unhappy with a motorcycle, and there are lot's to choose from. Sell it and move on.
 

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There is something wrong with your Vee. I've never subscribed to the whole "just keep the bike at 4K/5K rpm" theory. In stock form my Vee will happily and smoothly cruise at 3500rpm, and with aftermarket exhaust (no other mods) it is now happy at 3000 rpm.

I am also not a sporty rider and bought the Vee for relaxing long distance rides on the open road, which my bike does quite well. I have clutch chudder but it only rears it's head under heavy acceleration and so far I have been able to live with it.

I have sympathy for your plight though. There is no sense in throwing money at a bike that, even when running perfect, may not be what you want. The Vee is also the most problematic bike I have ever owned, which is not to say that it has me beating my head against the wall, it's just that every other bike I have ever owned has just worked perfectly no matter how much I neglected them.

I recently worked out that I have spent over $2000 on mods for my Vee and I have yet to even look at replacing the clutch, installing PCV or upgrading brakes or suspension. This really has been a lesson for me in the true cost of buying a "cheap" bike.

My Vee is totally useable in normal rpm ranges and for relaxing high speed rides. I think that the clutch basket will make it pretty much spot on, so to answer your question, I do believe that the Vee can be turned into a great touring bike.

However I suspect that your issues are the result of a bigger problem rather than just the usual design faults.
 

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+1 on the 16/43 gearing. Even then it will be happier above 3800-4000 rpm. Since you've done a TB sync and still backfiring you might check tourq on exhaust header. Sounding like this may not be the bike for you. Different strokes for different folks. Good luck. :beatnik:
 

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I'm considering dumping my Vee...

...TB sync and PCIII. That made things better, but I'm still pretty disappointed in my experience with my DL1000 Vee so far.
...Went over a pass with small twisties and it was the most miserable experience on a motorbike I've ever had...
...Also, tried a bit of off road, and that too was a total fail. No way would it chug down the gavel roads at low-ish rpm in 1st/2nd gear...
...Slow traffic. Forget it! Requires so much clutch feathering that my fingers start getting sore after just a few minutes...
...And add to that some CRAZY rattling and banging every time I accelerate from a stop going through the 3000-4000 range, it's like the whole thing is going to fall apart...
...Oh, and did I mention the random back firing?
My concern is that even then it still won't be the bike where I want it to be.

Anyway, finally to my questions:
Can the DL1000, when dialed in, be as smooth and easy to work as the above mentioned bikes?
Or are my expectations for this machine just too high?
It's a 1000cc bike! It should pull smooth just above idle in 1st with no lurching, surging, or any other nonsense.
Damn nice post Pfarthing6. :yesnod:
Over the years, I've spent thousands on getting my 06 Vee to function almost as good as my Harley or GS, (or lawn mower, or moped, etc...)
But I'm no adv-tourer and I'm a bit different than the typical Vee owner that will defend the bug infested top heavy sow to the death.
In my case, I appreciate the technical challenge and I love to complain, wrench, and learn. Hence I love my Vee.

Now if your an adv-tourer and actually need to ride, (rather than spend long nights in your shop wrenching) then the Vee may not be a good bike for your needs.

The tech-challenge of the DL1000 entices me!
Knowing that my K6 Vee is better, faster, smother, than the next guy's because I'm a credit card abusing, wrench-aholic perfectionist makes me a happy boy.
However... If you actually intend to leave the comfort of your garage and tour, you might be best to take meick's advice and move on. (see quote below)

Life is too short to be that unhappy with a motorcycle, and there are lot's to choose from. Sell it and move on.
Regards,
-Ej-
 

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Mine is smooth as silk and an absolute blast in the twisty stuff, eats miles and miles of slab too. Time to move on, sell it and let somebody else get it dialed in.
 

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Well no, you can't expect a sporty engine that has a peak torque at more than twice what you want to run at to do it smoothly. Mine runs OK at 3k with a light and smooth throttle hand, but I would never expect it to run like a tractor like BMW twin. Different animal all around. I wouldn't expect my FJR I-4 to run like my Honda V4 ST either.

Reading the threads on here complaining about the low rpm behavior and such tells me people chose the wrong engine. You can look at the engine's numbers and see its no slow rev laid back power plant at all. I would never expect to ride around smoothly at 3,000 rpm.

It is what it is, every new bike I've bought in the last 20 years was lean from the get go. But, you can't expect an engine to run outside it's intended rpm range.

My 950A KTM was a lean bastard and decel popped like crazy, my DR650 was horrible in stock form to me. My FJR1300 was a lean broad too. The only bike I felt was ok completely stock was my Honda ST, everything else needed a new map.

The DL1000 I picked up has a PC mid range map in it and its actually pretty good. I can tell its a bit rich at light throttle but there is a solid pull from 3500 rpm to red line. Six is almost useless below 70 mph IMO. And thats not a bad thing, it has long legs no doubt about it. In traffic just wind her up and stay in first and second. The engine runs good at 5,000 RPM and beyond, its not cruiser, its not a BMW twin etc. It reminds me of my past 950A geared very high. I can tell already even with the rich map it's getting better economy than my old 05 KTM. I'm happy over 40 mpg, the orange beast only got 36 mph on a good day.

I really like the engine and it makes me smile shifting around 6K or more. Its a fun engine, I find if I keep it above 4500 RPM on the interstate its very smooth and has enough passing power. With the current map I'm not lean anywhere and the engine is responsive above 4000 rpm although do let it run down to 3500 at times. No popping at all out of the two brothers C4 pipes too.

I think its a good all rounder and I chose it because of the engine. Sounds like you chose the wrong bike, try something different that fits your wants. No need to ride something you don't like. I ride with guys on everything, some love a R1200GS, some can't ride nothing but a HOT sweaty ST1300 and I for a while rode a DR650 everywhere even though I had a FJR at home. Ride what makes you smile.
 

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If you can...ride someone else's and compare. That way you'll know if its the bike or your perceptions. There's a world full of bikes to choose from. Maybe the 650 would've suited you better? If not, cut bait and try the next on your bike-lust list.

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Regarding the lurching you are talking about when rolling off and on the throttle, I have had the same type of throttle on both my fuel injected suzukis. On the GSXR forum they will call it the herky jerky. On the GSXR I had I adjusted the TPS as noted on the GSXR forums. Rolling off and on the throttle was much smoother after that. I haven't tried to do the same procedure on my 650 yet, but I have a feeling it will make a big difference. No other brand bike I've ridden has had such a sensitive/twitchy throttle.

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DL1 isnt your typical rice bike.

DL1 isnt your typical rice bike. it took me a while to get used to the DL1's long legs, especially the 6th. gear OverDrive. IOW's keep it around or above 4k rpm's and most of the problems simply go away. if 4k rpm's is to fast (mph) simply run in a lower trannie gear. works ok for me. see fuelly link below for possible better mpg.
 

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Hmmm, sounds to me like you have a definite fault. Mine is an '08 and to be honest once I wound the idle up to 1200 it's been almost perfect, I've added a PC111 just for the hell of it, and lowered the gearing, but it will happily sit on 3000rpm or even lower in traffic. Is there anyone in this guys area that could swap bikes? You're welcome to try mine but I'm a bit far away:yesnod:
 

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I had on '05 like that: a combination of little niggly running issues, chudder, impractical gearing, etc. interfered with my ability to love riding it.

I addressed some of the issues, never got it completely right. When I gretzed about it here, the majority would tell me I needed to spend more money, or "try <whatever>", or that I was being too picky/ demanding.

I dumped mine for a Glee. I miss the power, but nothing else. In a few years I will dump my Glee for a larger displacement ADV bike. If that's a new revised Vee with all the issues sorted, great. If the new revised Vee is still a project bike, I'll switch to a GS, or Super Tenere.

FWIW, everyone's input is good: changing the gearing was a big improvement for me, balanced TB's matters, etc. Once you tick everything off on "the list", you may still be unsatisfied as I was. Life is short, be happy.
 

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Life is too short to be that unhappy with a motorcycle, and there are lot's to choose from. Sell it and move on.


+1
get rid of it and move on
at this point nothing you do will take the bad taste away
and you are likely committed to hating this bike
find a Triumph or Yamaha
 

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My spirit guide tells me you have a loose throttle body boot

Check the rear sprocket and carrier

Get that pea from under the mattress
 

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Discussion Starter #18
Some very insightful advice guys. I'm very much obliged and am going to have to think about it some.

When deciding to go with an Adv bike, I was really torn between the Triumph Tiger and the Vee. I went with the Vee because I have been a twin rider for years and years.

I figured it would be something between my Honda 650GT and BMW airhead and was afraid the Triumph triple would be too much like an I4, which have never suited me.

There are definitely some pros to the Strom, having almost double the horses of my beemer certainly put a smile on my face. Highway riding is totally smooth and a lot better than any other bike I've had except a K1000RT that I owned briefly.

I'm not one to easily give up, but yeah, I never rode one before except for a bit of a test drive around the block on this one before shelling out the cash and I didn't know what to expect really. It seemed "OK", and I always assume I'll need to tinker, which I don't mind doing at all.

What sold me more though was the following these bikes have. Coming from mostly beemers for the last 20 years, I feel that getting something that has a good user base is pretty important, for a lot of obvious reasons, but also for just being part of a community and such.

Also just to mention, my very first bike was a Suzuki TS185, so there was a bit of nostalgia involved with choosing the Vee as well.

Anyway, what I'm taking home from all these great suggestions is:
- check the TPS and throttle cable adj.
- check header seating/tightness
- try tweaking a map (I did use the Chef "fat" map, but maybe that's not quite the right one for me)
- check chain (still kind of weird to have a chain again, LOL!)
- and if that gets me close, spend money...
- try a bigger rear sprocket (lower gear ratio)
- get the clutch modded

...even then, it may not be the cruiser (aka "tractor") I'm looking for. Ha!

Well, perhaps it's worth a bit more of my time to try getting it dialed in a little better and might help the resale value too, because after a test ride, it really could be the bike that somebody else is looking for :thumbup:

But yeah, point taken about just moving on too. There are LOTS of bikes out there indeed ...and thankfully, lots of good people to help me figure this stuff out :)

Thanks folks. Any more personal comments on what you went through to get your Vee to your liking would still be appreciated. Really enjoy hearing personal stories like that...
 

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There is something (or things) wrong with your bike....as someone else said, loose intake boot #1....a properly dialed in Vee with a PCIII should have very few hiccups to the point where it is a non issue....didn't see what year you are dealing with...what year is it?....I have a 2012 that has the updated ECM and it is a pleasure to ride...zero hiccups/surging anywhere on the rpm scale....I did switch to a 16/43 and it made the bike come alive with OD right where it belongs....I get your frustration but maybe run it by a sport bike shop (not dealer) that knows what they are doing before you move on...IMO...it's worth it...
 

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I bought my 07 1k from a yamaha dealer in north tx a few months ago. The test ride was fine, but I noticed a slight surge on the way home. Ride it to work the next day and thought it ran a bit rough, but it's my first twin, so maybe this is what they do. I got into some heave traffic about a mile from work and the most terrifying surge of unplanned acceleration I have ever had hit. I got off the throttle and on the binders quick with no harm. Parked it at work all day and thought about it. Rode home and it was now worse, one cylinder cutting in and out, backfiring on gear or throttle changes. Got the wife and kids loaded up to follow me to the dealer. Get to the last light before the highway and the bike dies. Jump start doesn't work. Find a new battery and she starts right up, but still running the same but the dealer will be closed before we get there so back home with the same issues. Call the dealer in the morning and tell them that they are going to fix it, or they can keep it. Their mechanic had ten years at a Suzuki dealer and races an sv. He had me pull the bike in and started tearing it down with the grace of a man that had done this a thousand times before. He gained my confidence when he listed off all the possibilities that people have suggested, along with his "special friend" a Yosh box. Called me in a couple hours and said he was done. New plugs, one loose boot, adjust idle, reprogram CPU with the yosh box. Runs great!
I'm at about 1k miles now and my mileage is about 40 average.
ImageUploadedByMO Free1379890961.845217.jpg
A lot of what you are saying, I agree with. Before this, my first fuel injected bike was a 99 triumph sprint. There was a definite on/off to the throttle control. The VEE is much more "light switch" like. I do have some slop in my cables, and am going to try to adjust and see if that helps. Other than that, it's been a really great bike.
I think what you need is someone that really knows these bikes to have a look. Most of your symptoms sound like they could be the result of a $2 hose leaking.


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