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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
I should have done it months ago...
(and, wow, I didn't expect my post would generate this big a response).
 

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I've got my 16 T ready to go when the stock chain and sprockets are done for. For my needs it should be perfect.
I might even go 1Th larger on the rear sprocket to lessen the impact.
 

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But the torque loss!?

I love the idea of longer, more useable gears, but I don't want to lose the little power the DL650 has... when compared to litre+ bikes I ride with.

Would love to hear you real results!
 

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I think the subject has been well covered on this forum. It drops your RPMs 300-400 in sixth gear and works great. I notice no difference in power and wish I’d have done it earlier.
Since my 2014 picks up the speed signal at the front sprocket it puts my speedo within 1 mph of my gps.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

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Discussion Starter #7

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But the torque loss!?

I love the idea of longer, more useable gears, but I don't want to lose the little power the DL650 has... when compared to litre+ bikes I ride with.

Would love to hear you real results!
I have run both the 16t and the 17t on the 2012 DL 650.

What do you mean by torque loss? Engine puts out the same power....

If you worried about torque multiplication from the gearing, you might be surprised to find the bike was just as quick as before. You don't upshift as soon, for instance when you shift into 5th gear the 16t bike can stay in 4th gear longer than you with your 15t sprocket. That means it is actually pulling harder than you at that time!
 

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I have run both the 16t and the 17t on the 2012 DL 650.

What do you mean by torque loss? Engine puts out the same power....

If you worried about torque multiplication from the gearing, you might be surprised to find the bike was just as quick as before. You don't upshift as soon, for instance when you shift into 5th gear the 16t bike can stay in 4th gear longer than you with your 15t sprocket. That means it is actually pulling harder than you at that time!
Engine torque at the crank doesn't change. But wheel torque certainly will. It's all about gearing and the impact on laying power down to the wheel. Here's a good link that shows approximately a loss of 6% power (at the wheel) going to a 16T:

https://sprocketcalculator.com

And here's the quick reference graph:

https://sprocketcalculator.com/explain

So those that have the 16t have not noticed any perceptible decrease in max acceleration or any negative drive-ability issues?

What about highway passing?
 

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Our highways in the southwest are 70 to 80 mph, revs are up there even with a 16 tooth sprocket. No trouble passing. You may have to slip the clutch a little more on takeoff but that's it. No one is forcing anyone to do this. If you don't want to try it...don't. The change made my 650 more enjoyable.
 

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I had a 16t on my '07 DL650, no problems, I could pass anything and get up to full freeway speed before getting to the bottom of the ramp. With the new '18, and it's slight power improvement, with the 16t I'm going 70mph before I even need to merge into the traffic lane. I'm a bit over 200lb plus full riding gear. The 16t is a benefit on my bike.

Steve.
 

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Engine torque at the crank doesn't change. But wheel torque certainly will. It's all about gearing and the impact on laying power down to the wheel. Here's a good link that shows approximately a loss of 6% power (at the wheel) going to a 16T:

So those that have the 16t have not noticed any perceptible decrease in max acceleration or any negative drive-ability issues?

What about highway passing?
Wheel torque will be less when measured in the same gears through a given rpm range when comparing a 16t to a 15t. But what most cannot comprehend is that you may not always be in the same gear! My 16t will hold 75+ mph with electronic cruise going through the high mountain ranges of New Mexico and Arizona in 6th gear.

Never owned a DL 650 yet that didn't need downshifted 1,2, 3 or more times to pass! That is just how they are.

With the 16t you might find yourself staying in the sweet spot of the torque range longer. The 16t can be one transmission gear lower and turn nearly the same rpms, so who do you think will win that roll-on? Acceleration from a stop is at least as fast, as no one can use full throttle and quick clutch engagement in first gear in most street conditions. After you are moving, the 16t makes each gear seem to fit the bike and the speed you want better than the 15t. You really don't see much difference in 4th and 5th gear just cruising along with the 15t, but the 16t makes each gear fit a speed better.

There is only one negative to the 16t. It does take a bit more throttle/clutch action to get it moving from a dead stop. Not really that much different from other bikes I have owned. Once moving the 16t is better in about every way. The 17t was simply too tall. Noticeably harder to take off, and in 6th gear the engine labored too much to be any real benefit.
 

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Not to hijack this thread, but a question about the latest Gen DL650 ('17-'19) speedo. Is the speedo read off the transmission gears or off the ABS ring? If ABS ring, front or rear? I did change the sprocket on my '09 Wee and really liked the lower revs when running the freeways, and as noted by others who have re-geared, I didn't miss the tiny bit of acceleration (torque) when riding around town.
 

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Wheel torque will be less when measured in the same gears through a given rpm range when comparing a 16t to a 15t. But what most cannot comprehend is that you may not always be in the same gear!
Right, and I get that. The 16T may make what power is available more useable, negating the power loss as a result of gearing up.

I guess what I'm getting at, is that theoretical max torque/power will be reduced. Meaning, put two of the same bikes, on the same dyno, at the same time, in the same atmospheric conditions, and the 15T will provide higher HP/TQ numbers. Whether that's relevant, except for a very specific point in the torque curve, is what needs to be understood. What I'm hearing is it's not.

I suppose it's one of those things you just need to try.
 

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Can the 16t counter sprocket be run with the same chain or does it require a slightly longer chain? If it makes any difference, I have a 2017 dl650.

For those that have done the change, any specific counter sprocket recommended?
 

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Right, and I get that. The 16T may make what power is available more useable, negating the power loss as a result of gearing up.

I guess what I'm getting at, is that theoretical max torque/power will be reduced. Meaning, put two of the same bikes, on the same dyno, at the same time, in the same atmospheric conditions, and the 15T will provide higher HP/TQ numbers. Whether that's relevant, except for a very specific point in the torque curve, is what needs to be understood. What I'm hearing is it's not.

I suppose it's one of those things you just need to try.
Dynos don't run through the gears. You put the bike/car into a chosen gear and make the pull. Now a chassis dyno like car manufacturers and bike manufacturers use could/would give torque outputs as you shifted up.

Theoretically you would be able to show more max torque ( we won't use horsepower as it doesn't exist on a dyno! It is calculated from torque readings. ) only because that would occur in first gear. But there is a more important number that many go by. Average torque/horsepower. In that case you probably wouldn't show any real difference overall.

The best example I have is a Mustang I used to drag race. The car would run 11.88 at 113 mph with 3.91 rear gears. We installed 4.56 ratio gears and went to the same track with same conditions. 11.89 was the best time it gave. So, no improvement. One big reason is the extra shift required into 4th gear made up for any advantage in acceleration. Same with the DL 650. You shift more and when you up shift in the 15t bike the 16t bike is still in the lower gear. Meaning it is actually pulling harder than you are at that moment.

We can talk about it on paper. But I have run this setup for many thousands of miles. Much of that side by side with a 2004 DL 650 that kept the 15t. You don't lose ANYTHING from a stop in acceleration! You WILL lose something in a 6th gear roll on compared to an otherwise equal 15t bike. But who rolls on in a DL 650? Downshift several gears and go!
 

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Engine torque at the crank doesn't change. But wheel torque certainly will. It's all about gearing and the impact on laying power down to the wheel. Here's a good link that shows approximately a loss of 6% power (at the wheel) going to a 16T: NO

You're confusing torque and power. With taller gearing, at the same engine rpm and in the same gear, there will be a reduction in torque at the wheel. The power does not change. As others have pointed out, you can hold each gear to higher road speeds, so overall acceleration is the same. Getting off the line might be a little slower with the taller gearing, that's all.

Edit: (I should've read all the posts before replying, other people have said it better than I have!)
 
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