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Hey everyone... just hit a little over 1000k on my Strom. Did first oil change with filter at 280 miles and filled with Castrol start up 10W40. I just bought some Mobil 1 15W50 Full syn and was debating whether or not to change the oil filter as well. I was going to take it off and let it drain out as best as I could. The first change had absolutley no signs of metal particles or shavings, everything looked really good. Just wanna get some input from some of you on your thoughts about the filter change. The manual says to keep it on, I would change it for sure if I had seen any metal on the oil plug. Thanks for your input!!
 

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BBurton said:
Hey everyone... just hit a little over 1000k on my Strom. Did first oil change with filter at 280 miles and filled with Castrol start up 10W40. I just bought some Mobil 1 15W50 Full syn and was debating whether or not to change the oil filter as well. I was going to take it off and let it drain out as best as I could. The first change had absolutley no signs of metal particles or shavings, everything looked really good. Just wanna get some input from some of you on your thoughts about the filter change. The manual says to keep it on, I would change it for sure if I had seen any metal on the oil plug. Thanks for your input!!
hi BB
being that you are changing to mobile one i think i would change the filter as well. you would be ok if you decide not to as mobile one is compatable with all other oils. i went to amsoil at my first oil change as i am an amsoil dealer. i changed the filter as well and now will change the filter every other oil change. just my opinion. hope this helps

Kaos :)
 

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Filters are cheap, engines aren't.

I change the filter everytime I change the oil.

I'd be extra sure the change the filter with the first change. In my case I did have metal in the oil. I bet if you took the filter apart you'd find some metal.

Mike
Tampa, FL
DL650K5
 
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I did change the filter on the first oil change, oil that drained out looked really clean as well as the oil plug. I will go with my first instinct and get a new filter 2morrow!! Wonder why Suzuki says to not change it at the second oil change?
 

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Glad to hear you decided to change the filter too, while I was training as a mechanic many years ago I was told "Never put clean oil through a dirty filter!". I have lived by that simple rule ever since, and I have no doubt it has helped my cars and bikes live happier and longer lives. For the sake of a few dollars, it gives me peace of mind.

My owners maunual says to change the filter at 1000km (600miles), and then not again until 18000km (11000miles)! Not likely I would leave it that long!

I think the reason manufacturers do this is to make the running costs of their particular bike or car appear lower in comparison to other brands, which is obviously attractive to the beancounters when selecting which vehicle to buy for their company fleets.
 

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In fact sometimes I change the filter only, and not the oil. The filter is a big can used to hold dirt and clean the oil. That should be the first thing to go.
 

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Barney said:
Glad to hear you decided to change the filter too, while I was training as a mechanic many years ago I was told "Never put clean oil through a dirty filter!". .
Looking thru the service manual, there is still 4/10's of a quart of old oil in the engine when you do a oil and filter change, so on a 650 V-Strom, you would have to tear down the motor to get all the old oil out.

Oil change 2.4 qts.
oil and filter change 2.9 qts.
overhaul 3.3 qts.

My 2 cents worth is filter on first change, then filter on every other change, even though Suzuki says it can go to the 3rd change, I'll just do it every other one.
 
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Discussion Starter #8
I changed oil and filter yesterday, this time I added exactley 2900ml just like the manual said. The oil level was dead nuts on the full line. I used Mobil 1 15W50 full syn, and I noticed a signifigant decrease in engine noise...not that I had much before, and the shifting is smoother especially from 1st to 2nd. :wink: I am breaking my engine in "almost" riding it like I normally do, just no red line revs and adjust rpm levels when cruising. No metal or shavings at all in any oil changes. Matter of fact, the oil looked really good, hated to throw it out.
 
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DaveJ said:
Looking thru the service manual, there is still 4/10's of a quart of old oil in the engine when you do a oil and filter change, so on a 650 V-Strom, you would have to tear down the motor to get all the old oil out.

Oil change 2.4 qts.
oil and filter change 2.9 qts.
overhaul 3.3 qts.
If you drain the oil cooler during the oil change, you'll find much of the extra oil.
 
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BBurton said:
Did first oil change with filter at 280 miles and filled with Castrol start up 10W40.
For some bizarre reason I read "10W40" as "WD40" at which point I thought "he did WHAT!?!?" :shock: :lol:
 

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rbs_cairns said:
DaveJ said:
Looking thru the service manual, there is still 4/10's of a quart of old oil in the engine when you do a oil and filter change, so on a 650 V-Strom, you would have to tear down the motor to get all the old oil out.

Oil change 2.4 qts.
oil and filter change 2.9 qts.
overhaul 3.3 qts.
If you drain the oil cooler during the oil change, you'll find much of the extra oil.
Has anyone here ever drained the oil cooler with an oil and filter change to get rid of that 4/10 qt. of old oil?????
 

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Dave, Dave, Dave......you're like a dog with a bone here mate! OK, we get the point, you never really get all the oil out of the engine, now let it go man! But I stand by my comments. Hope you buy yourself something nice with the 10 bucks a year you're saving on oil filters........

Just kidding! Each to their own. Wouldn't the world be boring if we all agreed on everything?
 

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On this same theme, a couple snips from some interesting posts on the IBMWR list in the last day or two.

(Study was on synthetic oil)

http://neptune.spacebears.com/cars/stories/oil-life.html

"Thanks for posting this link. I think the most interesting gem of info
I got out of the study was the following

a.. Engine wear actually decreases as oil ages. This has also been
substantiated in testing conducted by Ford Motor Co. and ConocoPhillips, and
reported in SAE Technical Paper 2003-01-3119. What this means is that
compulsive oil changers are actually causing more engine wear than the
people who let their engine's oil get some age on it.

Another bit of useful information from the study is
Based on the results we've got here, we'd recommend 8,000 miles between oil
changes on an engine that uses no oil at all, perhaps 10,000 miles on an
engine that uses some oil, and 15,000 miles or beyond with a filter change
every 5,000 miles. This, of course, isn't any kind of guarantee, and you
must evaluate for yourself what your engine requires. One thing we're pretty
sure about though: 3,000-mile intervals is a huge waste of resources."

AND,

"Almost 10 years ago this same discussion was talking place here (as it
probably will 10 years from now).

One question to ask is if someone performs a given maintenance to fit the
service requirement or do they do it out of a psychological attachment to a
given number IE 3K miles.

Oils have improved significantly in the past 25 years.
Engines today run significantly cleaner than engines of 25 years ago (less
contamination and degradation to oil).

If 3K miles is the right change interval today, than surely, a shorter
interval would have been necessary 15 yrs ago. A shorter still 25 years ago.
For example, if 3K is right today, then maybe 1,500 miles would have been
right 15 rears ago and 500 miles 25 years ago.

Likewise, if 3K is right today, then it should be too short 10 years from
now given assumption of continually cleaner and tighter engines and
improving oils.

Also, if 3k is right today, then it was most probably very inadequate 20
years ago.
Of course, this applies to newer engines. If you're running a 25 year old
engine, it impacts the service requirement.

But a question to ask is: If we buy a new BMW bike in 2015 and oil
classification is up to SP (from SH or whatever), will we still be attached
to 3K mile interval?

If so, then today's interval is much too long. It should really be 1,500
miles or so. Hmm. . . ."
 

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Very interesting. One thing's for sure when it comes to oil related topics.....everyone has a different opinion!
 

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Barney said:
Very interesting. One thing's for sure when it comes to oil related topics.....everyone has a different opinion!
I'd have to agree 100% with that!

Isn't it nice that we don't really have to worry that much about oil, as when was the last time you heard of anyone actually having an engine problem due to oil?
 

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The never ending argument about oil - LONG...too darn long

DaveJ said:
One question to ask is if someone performs a given maintenance to fit the service requirement or do they do it out of a psychological attachment to a given number IE 3K miles.

Oils have improved significantly in the past 25 years.
Engines today run significantly cleaner than engines of 25 years ago (less
contamination and degradation to oil).

If 3K miles is the right change interval today, than surely, a shorter interval would have been necessary 15 yrs ago. A shorter still 25 years ago. For example, if 3K is right today, then maybe 1,500 miles would have been right 15 years ago and 500 miles 25 years ago.
It seems to me that a person would have to determine cause and effect. Over the last 15 - 25 years, people have been trained to change their oil ("3000 miles - Lube it or lose it") every 3k miles.

We as a driving society also expect our engines to last significantly longer. Personally, I've got over 140k miles on my cage engine with no significant maintenance. I've changed the oil (every 3k - 5k miles), and I've replaced normal wear and tear items. 15 - 25 years ago, it was expected that a vehicle would A) burn oil (hence checking the oil when filling up the gas tank - every 3-400 miles) and B) need a rebuild after 60 - 100 thousand miles.

People tended to change their oil on longer intervals. (around 10k by my family recolection)

So what's cause and what's effect.
Cause: Changing oil every 3k (instead of 10k) miles
Effect: Engines last longer - maybe.
Cause: Engines are built better
Effect: Engines last longer (and make more power) - maybe
Cause: Better oils are used
Effect: Engines last longer - maybe.

Regardless of Cause and Effect. Since most oils are recycled (very efficiently), we have no detrimental effect to changing oil on a consistent (i.e. 3k) basis.

Does Jiffy Lube (or NAPA etc) make more money by selling us on changing our oil at 3k? Of course they do, are we hurting our bikes / cages by waiting 'til 5k (or 10k w/ synthetic? Probably not.

I change my oil at 3k on my bike and cage because it's easy to look at the odo and know when to do it. I do it at 3k because it's a pretty decent way to keep track of oil usage. I also sometimes forget and get my oil changed at 6k, because it keeps my mental numbers easy.

But there is no real difference.

John <--- lots of words that say nothing

p.s. I also change my filter everytime...it's cheap, and it helps my vehicle run cleaner inside. Sounds like a "Good Thing" (TM) to me.
 
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Gosh! Here's one more opinion, based on over three decades of mechanical experience on bikes. All oil marketing hype is just that, because one brand of quality oil is essentially identical to every one of its competitors...so they have to advertise like crazy and make all sorts of ridiculous claims to gain market share.

Buy the type of oil according to how often you want to change it. If you don't mind changing oil every 2 to 3000 miles, standard mineral-based oil is fine. If you need to have oil that can go as much as 8000 miles between changes, go with synthetic.

For mineral-based oils, any decent brand of motorcycle oil is fine. Suzuki's own brand is excellent and costs about $3 a quart. Whatever brand you use, change it often, like every couple of thousand miles, especially in hotter climates or in the summer since the engine's likely to run at hotter temperatures. High temperatures accelerate thermal viscosity breakdown in mineral-based lubricating oils. Thermal breakdown is the ONLY criteria with motorcycle lubricants that affect engine life.

If you're unwilling or unable to change your oil frequently or live in HOT climates where you're doing lots of stop and go traffic kind of driving, synthetics are a better choice, as those types of oils are proven to have slower rates of thermally-related breakdown. If you're driving an air-cooled bike, like a Harley or Yamaha cruiser, or a Ducati, then you'll want to use synthetics since air cooled engines operate at nominally higher temperatures that accelerate thermal breakdown of oil. Yes, choosing oil really is THAT simple.

And always, ALWAYS use either a K&N, Suzuki, Napa Gold or other well made oil filter! Change it at every oil change or at least every other oil change. If you puts lots of miles on your oil, then change it every oil change. Avoid Fram oil filters. Their cardboard junk. A poorly made oil filter that fails and blows out will take an engine out in no time flat. In 36 years of riding and working on motorcycles, I've seen a LOT of totalled engines from oil filter failure, NEVER from excessive wear from one brand of oil versus another.

My two, er...four, er... 25 cents...
 
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