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Discussion Starter #1
OK gang. I have waxed eloquent on this before but want to see some smarter wrenches than me jump in.

I have now had, in the short span of 1500 miles, more 'false neutrals' on this one bike than I have had on all motorcycles I have owned or ridden, combined, over almost 30 years of riding. Always the same: either 4-5 upshift or 5-6 when accelerating. Coast to the shoulder [not always safe] then work it back into some useful gear.

Is there something loose on these bikes? the distance between those gears is cavernous compared to, say, the Roadstar cruiser I had which is like 'click' 'click' from one to another... very short little throws.

Plus, I don't think the following is my imagination hard at work:
- whenever I encounter one of these, the shifting of the trans is very gimpy for hours. What I mean is I immediately notice that each shift thereafter is gritty... not a lot of noise, but I can feel crunchiness in the shift through my foot. Its as though the clutch is not fully engaging/disengaging, or maybe the synchronizers are out of whack? Since I don't know what the inside of that box is supposed to work like, I don't have a theory. Usually on a full cooldown and then the next drive, it feels pretty normal again.

ANy clues? Has anyone had a good service tech take a look at one that behaves this way?

Zapp
 
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Iv'e never had a false neutral other than between 1-2 on any bike. I have noticed it can be tough to upshift sometimes but the bike only has 200 mles on it and I think that will improve when the gearbox is broken in all the way.
 

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Bought my bike in December and it's coming up on 4000 miles. Broke it in by the book. Went to Rotella 15W40 on the first oil change (600 miles), second change at 2500 miles, clean and lube chain at 350 to 400 mile intervals and made one chain adjustment. Otherwise nothing but trouble free operation (knock-knock).
Two gear shifting issues:
1.The shift leaver had to be adjusted (repositioned). It just didn't match up with my clumsy foot motion when shifting.
2.The first shift of the day (neutral to low) does not clunk the way my other bikes do/did. That is a problem only in that it makes me nervous. I worry that it will jump out of gear, but so far that hasn’t happened. After warm-up this returns to normal and there is an auditable click when shifting from neutral to low. All other gear changes feel normal.
I may be headed for trouble in the future but only times and miles will tell that tale, but based on the contrast in our two bikes, my feeling is that you need to take this issue up with trained professional. I don’t know how common it is but I have heard stories (from what I believe to be a reliable sources) of motorcycle transmissions getting locked up it two gears at the same time. As I understand it automobile and motorcycle transmissions are very different and bike gearboxes are frail by comparison.
Old George
 

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Zapp, you're not alone. Yes, the DL650 is prone to 4-5 and 5-6 false neutrals--more than all the other bikes I've ridden, too. But don't worry, they diminish over time. To get a longer-term perspective, go to the svrider.com board and do a search on false neutrals. The SV650 and DL650 have very similar gear boxes and both have the same tendency. But on the bright side, neither bike seems to have a tendency toward gear box failure. As for shift throw length, some bikes are better, some worse. Take Mariah's advice to heart: adjust your shifter lever down a little. And then maybe a little more--there is no "stock" lever position. It needs to be adjusted for each person (and even each pair of boots!) so that you've got the right foot position comfort as well as adequate foot leverage for solid upshifts. If you can, ride someone else's to compare. Honestly, I think your bike is probably OK. If it really is semi-broken, then ride hell out of it to break the rest of the way before the warranty is up.

moto_potato
 
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I finally put my first miles on the bike today!!!!! Temps in the 20's/30's but after missing the nice day (60's) yesterday, I had to take action. The heated grips I installed, worked and everything else was ok. I'm doing the moto man break in method. So I put 50 miles and changed the oil and filter right away. The bike ran smooth but right away I noticed false neutral beetween 2 and 3, also 3 and 4. I had to really play the shifter to switch!!! On the way back, it seemed to get a little better, also I was getting used to the bike. When it was not shifting, a little trick I was doing, was pushing the shifter a bit down to kind of engaged it, after that shifting was ok (no need to coast on the side). So I suspect the shifter not be adjusted properly also the whole thing needs to get more miles... So I'm not to worry, but I'll keep an eye on this glintch.
Pif.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
good idea moto-p
I'll put another couple hundred on today the hard way!!! haarrrrr

8)
 

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Never had any false neutrals on mine. I did find that I had to followup on my shifts from 1st into 2nd or it would not go into 3rd on the first attempt. I thought it was the bike, it was me. The gear box is not a slick as on my GS500. Almost 8,000 miles and no issues on mine to date.
Going to let the plugs go until about 10,000 miles. Everyone that checks them at 7,500 said that they could go a lot further.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
re: Mike's comment. See, this is what bugs me. From reading the responses here and on other [i'm sure ... lesser...]forums, it appears that a handful of SV's and DL's have this problem, and the ones that have it have it for a long time, like the life of the bike. Others NEVER experience it, even if the rider is inexperienced. That tells me that something gets mis-installed or tweaked at assembly time, or there are some out of spec parts involved [been there].

I'm going to call a couple of Suzi dealer sservice departments and ask about both SV and DL having this issue and see if there is any sort of tech svc bulleting or wrenchnote on it

Z
 

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Hi,
only a false between 5 - 6 once or twice, in 6000 miles.

Let me ask you. Have you adjusted the clutch?
I adjusted the cluth exactly the way they say to in the service manual.
It seems to have made shifting less klunly..

It's a little unorthodox... They say scew the adjuter at the lever all the way in... (as in) take all the adjutment out there..

then Adjust it at the engine... using the screw where the cable meet the shaft... Loosen screw, turn some special nut Bla Bla Bla... dont know all the exact details right here/now... but Look it up in the service Manual..

It made my clutch feel better...
try it cant hurt ...

My bigest problem/ complaint is the downshift from 2nd to N to 1st.

If I stay in Nuetral too long, I grind going into first.

I must quickly stab it from 2nd straight to first... then it slips in nice & quiet.. as I said any lingering in nuetral ... GRRRHHRRHRHRRHR KlUNK

So, not a big deal reallly, My solution works well...

My nephew has an SV with 18,000 miles Trans Feels Like an wet weiner sliding into a velvet purse............slick..
So, with mileage these things may loosen up nice.

I also have been running Amsoil Pure Synth 10-40
 

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Discussion Starter #10
chris
thanks for the tip. I did not know of the procedure. have the service man so I'll look 'er up

re oil: i switched from Rotella T heavy duty 15/40 to the syth 5/40 and the bike does not seem to like it very much. grindy/crunchy. I was looking for Mobil 4-stroke cycle oil but no one had, and there are no amsoil dealers nearby to my knowledge. what's a body to do....

z
 

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Zapp,
Bummer about the Synth Rotella..

I lurk over here all the time http://www.svrider.com/
Just to see what these guys say about the engine and stuff, and because I love the SV..
These Guys LOVE the Rotella Synth Many swear by it...

I was riding today... I was wearing steel toe boots I normally dont wear on the bike..

It seems that the Toe (much bulkier) was pushing up on the shifter..... it seemed to get the shifter out of sync or something...... seemed like I missed a few shifts I was thinking WTF !!! But then I realized it was my boot..

After that I made a very concious effort to point my boot down and not let it ride the shifter... then everything was smooth again...

So, ... do you think you could be having an issue with your boot ???

It seemed that the shifter would travel quite a bit while I was pressing on it even though i was just going down the road not shifting....

As I said, this seemed to get the shift pattern all messed up...
As soon as I stopped playing with the shifter everything worked fine again....



Something to think about

chris
 

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Discussion Starter #12
nah. its the throw, or something in the tranny. like I said: many bikes, and roll all the FN's together and this one already has more.
Also, when I changed the oil I noticed I'm STILL getting metal filings even after four changes in 1600+ miles

and my mileage isn't up to snuff. i'm doing good to break 40

Z
 
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All right, I took the bike out for the second time of its life today! I was anxious to try it again, and hope the falses neutral woud be gone.... I lowered the shift lever before going and it did the trick apparently. Not a single false on this around town spin, the bike was a cream puff. I can feel now that the shifter is well "accompagnied" in this position and maybe firmer. Hope it stays that way........... The bike seems like a real fun to ride. It's getting nicer around here.
Pif.
:wink:
 

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Discussion Starter #14
UPDATE

All who are interested.

Talked to the dealer service manager [the good one] about this at length and he says he is most bothered by the fact that the bike doesn't want to go back into a gear once it hits a false neutral [I told him just how ugly it was the two times, and last two times, i tried to get it to kick back in].
So, he wants me to leave it with him a couple of days so he can wring it out. Said it is not good to have a 'repeat offender' hitting false neutral in same place as it will tend to cement that behaviour

Zapp
 

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I know this is an old thread but I have some (possibly) interesting input.

I'm experiencing several false neutrals on the 5-6 upshift on my K6. I have about 500 miles on it and I'm currently running 10w-40 dyno oil. There doesn't seem to be any consistent situation that causes the FNs and I can easily shift up or down when they occur. FWIW, I never experienced this on my K5. I'll keep my eye on this as it relates to oils used, break-in and shifter adjustments.

My ZR-7S would hit a FN sometimes on a 1-2 upshift under hard acceleration. This was much more of a problem when trying to get away from oncoming traffic. :shock:
 

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Discussion Starter #16
well, mine went away for awhile after a pretty hard laydown, and recently returned. always 5-6 for me, as previously stated. I have just had to retrain myself to use no clutch at all on the 5-6 shift.... it pops right in there if I just jam it. of course, if I'm accelerating really hard, I use other measures......
z
 

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zapp said:
well, mine went away for awhile after a pretty hard laydown, and recently returned. always 5-6 for me, as previously stated. I have just had to retrain myself to use no clutch at all on the 5-6 shift.... it pops right in there if I just jam it. of course, if I'm accelerating really hard, I use other measures......
z
I've had my share of hard drops so I'll look for other solutions. ;)

So far, the problem seems to be worse if I quickly shift from 4-5, then 5-6. Trannys are a dark mystery to me so I'm not sure what this means.
 

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Discussion Starter #18
well, you can always get off the bike the right way, then push it over real hard on its left side!!! :lol:

pre-loading pressure on the upshift is a big help. it takes some getting used to, but its a quicker, slicker shift when you do

as trannies go, this one is pretty slick, actually.... i've only had one better

z
 

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zapp said:
well, you can always get off the bike the right way, then push it over real hard on its left side!!! :lol:

pre-loading pressure on the upshift is a big help. it takes some getting used to, but its a quicker, slicker shift when you do

as trannies go, this one is pretty slick, actually.... i've only had one better

z
I actually pre-loaded the shifter quite a bit on my ZR-7S. As someone said, "The transmission is bulletproof but it acts like it's been shot a couple of times."

I'm going to change my oil this weekend (finally past 500) and switch to Mobil-1 15w-50. That's what I was running in the K5 and it seemed pretty happy. If I get a chance, I'll take the front sprocket cover off and make sure it's not too gunky in there. The dealer doused the chain in motor oil and it made quite a mess. Sometimes, I wish they would just ship the crate to my house and let me put the bike together.
 

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shifting

I haven't really noticed any false neutrals, but a little notchiness in the higher gears. But it is improving with increased miles. I did an initial early oil cange around 60 miles and noticed an improvement then, also.

One little tip I read in a magazine one time was to "preload" your shifter before you make an upshift. That is, put a little bit of pressure under the shifter for an upshift before you make your gearchange. It really does help some. Had an 1100 Virago once and tried this technique and worked good. The hardest part is getting into the habit of doing it! :wink:
 
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