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I like my 2012 GLEE, but my next bike is going to be electric. What are you waiting for, Suzuki?
Even Harley will be marketing one soon, and there are about 10 other electric startups like Zero waiting to fill orders.

Electric bikes have several advantages. They don't explode in a ball of fire in an accident; they don't poison and pollute out the tailpipe, they have 100% torque available instantly; they are just as quick or even quicker than ICE bikes; they handle just as well, and are way more reliable with only 4-5 moving parts in the motor. The can use belt drives, which are way less maintenance intensive, as is the rest of the motorcycle: no oil changes, no filter changes, no coolant changes, no tune-ups and valve adjustments, no gas stations, and no transmissions and clutches. Twist and ride with just wind and tire noise to bother you and the neighbors.

Ending Big Oil will drastically reduce pollution and stop the horrendous Oil and Poppy Wars that have killed millions, cost trillions, given away our liberties and privacy, and killed and maimed our boys. The War OF Terror is our longest and costliest war ever, AND IT'S STILL GOING ON.:furious:
 

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What charges the batteries?

Human impact of lithium mining.

Environmental impact of processing usable battery material.


Other than that it all looks good.
 

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They don't explode in a ball of fire in an accident;
Ummm.... I don't think you know all that much about Lithium Ion batteries. I'd suggest you familiarize yourself with the causes of the Samsung Note 7 battery failures, and read up on many of the documents available from NTSB, NASA and other organizations on Li and similar batteries' safety. You will read about cascading failures, and learn that a short circuit of a Li battery can be caused not just by tapping the positive and negative terminals together, but also by puncture, leakage or crushing of cells. Much like in a vehicle accident.

To put a fine point on it, watch this video from June of last year. Richard Hammond of The Grand Tour rolled a Rimac Concept 1 electric vehicle - stunning car, as you point out - reducing the total number of copies from 8 to 7. Note that firefighters repeatedly thought the fire was out, but it continued burning - for four days. That's one vehicle.


I don't have the bugaboos that you do, but my country wasn't the target of 911, is no longer much involved in the operating theatre of the war on terror, and isn't subject to the daily rhetoric that comes from the White House. We have our own problems, of course. What I do take exception to, however, is the fact that in all of the arguments over "foreign oil" including the issue that certain wars are simply a war for oil and not for political expediency, it's convenient to forget that nearly 40% of the United State's foreign oil comes from Canada. (It was easy, we twinned the Maple Syrup Pipeline.)

As to other's concerns about the human cost of Li mining, it's actually recovered by solar evaporation of brine taken from brine pools. It's not pretty, but neither are the brine pools. The salts then get further extracted to obtain the refined lithium used elsewhere.

I also don't get a jazzy feeling about electricity production in North America. 65% of electricity in the US is generated by fossil fuels - coal, oil and gas. In Canada, over 60% is from hydro-electric generation, and we are a net exporter, with our excess power going to the US. Given that America is roughly 10X the population base of Canada, what we generate in electricity is kind of inconsequential, when the US is so reliant on fossil fuels for electricity generation. I'm a big proponent of nuclear and hydro electric power, and the US has more electricity generating reactors than any other country - they'll put them in their battleships and submarines, close to "their boys", but they won't put them close to their cities that need them.

Please don't get me wrong. I'm stoked about electric motorcycles too. I don't think they will bring about world peace, especially when Li is primarily mined in the Andes, with Chile and Argentina the primary suppliers. I'm afraid the USA would have issues with that - total foreign supply - if that remains the main chemical in batteries. However, battery technology will change. Someday we may know how to carry electricity in deionized water - who knows. Oh, wait - that would be hydrogen fuel cells, a technology that's actually smarter than electricity in my opinion. The point is that what we see now as electric vehicles are the rough equivalent to the steam-powered cars of the early 1900s. Future generations will look back on the technology we had - they used LAPTOP batteries, can you imagine?!?!?! - and think we were crazy.

Bring on electric bikes, sure. Heck, you can be excited about it. There will be lots of tech on them too, like the come to me feature on the Falcon X. And, make no mistake, there will be gyroscopes to keep you upright at stoplights. That stuff is already here, as you will see in the video below. I for one am still a fan of actual driving, and running an ICE. I have a manual transmission car - because I enjoy driving. What I forsee about electric bikes is that they will add tech for the sake of tech... it won't be the motorcycle you're thinking of, not for long. Bring on the electric bikes! That will make a healthy resale market for the ICE bikes.

 

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I like the whole hybrid idea, works well with cars. :)
I've never been a fan of hybrids, myself. I think the thing with them is that they are so obviously a stop-gap measure. And it's impractical on a bike, even a series hybrid.

There will be something. I won't be battery technology, that's for sure. Especially when Mr. Musk rolls out the fees for charging, which are a matter of time. They're free now while he sets up the distribution network, but make no mistake, it's not free forever. And you'll RARELY be charging at off peak times / prices at a Tesla charger.

Hydrogen fuel cells won't be the answer either - it's not like hydrogen trucks wouldn't be flammable as they drove to refill the stations. Honestly, there are so few competitors right now, as everyone is concentrating on Li and battery tech. The ultimate solution will be to take in something inert and use it for power. Kind of like the kid that invented a flashlight that is powered by the heat from the hand holding it. It's going to take something like that - something we don't expect - to be the big sea change.

We are all just at a stop-gap right now.
 

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What charges the batteries?
Where I am ? Nothing that adds and carbon and even with you poor sods pissing in the atmosphere....coal plants are still more efficient than any ICE engine.

Human impact of lithium mining.
red herring ..do you have any idea how much lithium is in the sea?
Researchers at Japan’s Atomic Energy Agency have come up with a new method of processing seawater to extract lithium—an element that plays a key role in advanced batteries for electric vehicles and one that, if current predictions for the EV market prove accurate, could be in short supply before the end of the decade
Environmental impact of processing usable battery material.
ummm they are all recycled.

Other than that it all looks good.
It does doesn't it. >:)

aside from the nonsense above ..it will take a while before EV motorcycles make sense. Hybrid might work. We aren't the carbon problem - commuters and coal are.

Individuals can easily offset any carbon they emit for a $100 or so per year. I offset my flights that way.
https://www.carbonfootprint.com/offsetprojects.html
 

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...
We aren't the carbon problem - commuters and coal are.
...
Keep up... the latest target of CO2 production is eating beef!

Not sure what it will be next month though.

..Tom
 

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Tech still isn't quite there Macdoc, so it isn't nonsense. I hope to add an electric scoot of some kind to ride around here, but as of now that's still a ways off.
 

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Selective reading ??

it will take a while before EV motorcycles make sense.
What I was refuting were the specious objections.

Keep up... the latest target of CO2 production is eating beef!
eat kangaroo...no methane from roos and they free range graze...yum

 

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Let's not forget the environmental devastation of rare earth metal production and which country controls the market.
As for Hydro...it has a carbon footprint that is large. They flooded 11,000 sq KM to make the James Bay project in sanctimonious Quebec. Didn't the Greenspace it replaced eat C02?
 

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Let's not forget the environmental devastation of rare earth metal production and which country controls the market.
As for Hydro...it has a carbon footprint that is large. They flooded 11,000 sq KM to make the James Bay project in sanctimonious Quebec. Didn't the Greenspace it replaced eat C02?
Oh stop with the nonsense....all technology has a cost and if you think flooding as bit of taiga to provide low cost low carbon electricity for millions of people I have nice warm cave in Mexico you can retire to and grow your own food.
( 185,403,168 acres of forested area in Quebec and you are worried about 11,000 !!!??? pardon my laughter ).

Rare earth mining is not a "disaster" - AGW is an unfolding disaster.
Rare earths are being replaced in devices as rapidly as technology can solve it.

Japan has discovered likely enough for an infinite supply.
'Semi-infinite' trove of rare-earth metals found in Japanese waters ...
https://www.independent.co.uk/.../rare-earth-metals-japan-semi-infinite-ocean-mobile-...
12 Apr 2018 - Scientists have found rare-earth metals required to produce high-tech products ... Seabed Authority, which regulates the sea floor within international waters, ...
We have the technology for a carbon neutral sustainable planet.

This is all the people on the planet stacked in a small corner of the grand canyon.


What we don't have is the honest politicians to undertake the project ... ( tho China at least is getting there as is Europe )
EVs at least address a major issue that in the end will save a commuter transport money and solar/wind is now the least expensive form of electricity production tho storage needs to catch up.

EV motorcycles are niche and likely remain so tho lower cost swappable battery packs will help as well as lots of charging stations. We carry extra fuel on long trips ...battery energy density needs to get into the same range and lithium batteries are light.

Hybrid I'm not sure of the gain...I get 70 mpg on a bike that can cruise all day at 70-80 mp.

RIders in Manhattan can't even buy fuel....but there is lots of electricity >:)
 

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I read recently of someone riding across the country on an electric motorcycle, charging at RV parks along the way. Checking the stated range for highway travel on the 'Zero' motorcycle site I see they give it as 112 miles. Lets say 100 miles as a real number. That means I can travel 50 highway miles before I need to turn around. Probably make a good city vehicle but wouldn't work for me.

As for Lithium mining it does sound nasty.
Lithium Mining and Environmental Impact - Lithium Mining - The Worldwide Website

"Everything comes at the cost, so while the environmental impact might not be worse than mountaintop mining, it’s going to be important to pay attention to the environmental impact, because there will be one."

I was poking around a favorite area in the desert not long ago, an old ghost/mining town that has been designated a wild Burro sanctuary (https://www.blm.gov/visit/marietta-wild-burro-range) and I ran into a geologist and her crew from Canada. They were prospecting for Lithium and they had competition.
 

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One difference is that lithium is not a consumable - once refined it stays in use. Lithium mining compared to oil sands...not even close to the kind of issues and environmental degradation and oil unfortunately IS a consumable.....worst of all is coal.....a consumable and very damaging to human health.

Lithium exposure like exposure in uranium mining has some health risk to the workers and needs to be dealt with .....it's doubtful China will be too careful with workers. :(

Still as the article covers - all technology carries risk and lithium may not be the final word on batteries.

Researchers from the University of Birmingham may have found a way to replace the lithium in lithium-ion batteries with a cheaper sodium option. Lithium-ion batteries are commonly used in electronics like laptops, smartphones and hybrid and electric vehicles because they are rechargeable.
https://www.rdmag.com/article/2018/09/sodium-could-replace-lithium-batteries

any objections to mining salt >:)
 

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Oil can be recycled and much of that is done, so for a consumable it's a pretty good one. :smile2: Coal gets a bad rep, in particular from other countries who aren't nearly as dependent or knowledgeable about such. Natural gas is now the main fuel of choice here in the states for the power plants, and of course their are many detractors concerning the "fracking" methods used for such.
 

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"This is all the people on the planet stacked in a small corner of the grand canyon."

I don't remember getting an invite to that photoshoot. So probably a side canyon full is misrepresented in that pic.
 

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Oil can be recycled and much of that is done, so for a consumable it's a pretty good one.
What ???!! - you got a CO2 capture device on your exhaust.

Not only is it not recycled ..it's poorly used as efficiency is low. Are you thinking that oil is not gasoline feedstock. 0:)

It is nice that motor oil is recycled...it's a tiny factor and irrelevant since it's not burned for fuel.

Coal gets the bad rap it deserves on all counts.
 

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Oil in **in** the engine can and is recycled.

If I recall correctly, the vast majority of oil is used fo rothe purposes than being consumed as fuel. Plastics come to mind as a big part (however bad.) Few things in our modern society would exist without oil.

..Tom
 
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